Logging at 22-AUG-2000 17:54)
.Soaring Eagle> hey ya royce and dorc
DORCASQ> Hi ya guys!
.Royce3> How has everyone been so far this week?
** JOASHA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (4 members now) **
DORCASQ> Are we in the right room?
.Royce3> Hello, Joasha, welcome.
** BAUBLE49 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (5 members now) **
DORCASQ> Haaaay! Joasha!
.Soaring Eagle> good ? dorc. lol
.Joasha> good evening and thank you
.Royce3> Hi bauble.
BAUBLE49> Hello All
.Royce3> Is everyone having a good week?
.Soaring Eagle> geetings everybody
DORCASQ> So far, yes, Royce
BAUBLE49> Hey, Dorcas, you were in my dream last night!
.Joasha> can't complain lol
DORCASQ> Really, Baub!!!???
.Soaring Eagle> oh should we cover our ears?
DORCASQ> A nightmare
DORCASQ> What did you dream about me, Baub?
DORCASQ> Is your new home all done, Joasha?
.Soaring Eagle> were you guys on the moon? lol
DORCASQ> What happened to Bauble??
.Soaring Eagle> lost in the dream!
BAUBLE49> She was living at a fancy hotel, and she wanted to show me her
'suite'. That's all I can remember. I only remember snipets of my dreams.
.Joasha> it is not all done, but just lots of little things and Greg is out
of town so they are just going to have to wait until he has some time to
DORCASQ> Sounds a little like 1and's dream
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DORCASQ> Are you happy with it, J?
.Soaring Eagle> speak of the dreamer!
BAUBLE49> What was land's dream?
1ANDONLY1> Hi room
.Royce3> Hi 1andonly1, welcome.
.Joasha> oh my yes!!!
DORCASQ> Hi 1andonly1
BAUBLE49> Funny Soaring Eagle
.Soaring Eagle> hello land
DORCASQ> Good, J!!
.Joasha> hey One
1ANDONLY1> dream time tonight isit!!!!!
.Royce3> Joasha is telling us about her new house. I'm sure it is delightful.
DORCASQ> Is your family all moved in with you too, J?
.Royce3> Yes, 1and, we will continue with our exploration of dreams.
.Joasha> have lost so much weight running up and down stairs, have to wear
suspenders on my jeans
1ANDONLY1> How does one know when one is having a dream or in a time reality
DORCASQ> Suspenders on jeans (what a picture I got)
BAUBLE49> Lucky Joasha!!!
.Joasha> yes Dorcasq, they moved in 3 days after us.
1ANDONLY1> (grid) hi all just popped in to say hello
DORCASQ> Hi Grid!
BAUBLE49> Maybe would only feel that you know if you actually have a lucid
.Joasha> my Dad is having a real renewal on life. is a pleasure to watch
1ANDONLY1> hi dorc
.Royce3> I'm not sure I'm totally clear on what you are asking, 1and. Hello
grid, I hope you can stay awhile.
DORCASQ> That is wonderful J!!
1ANDONLY1> i will royce
.Royce3> Yes, Joasha, it is great how your family gets along.
BAUBLE49> Hi Grid
** JEFFLOVE999 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (7 members now) **
.Royce3> Hello, Jeff, welcome.
BAUBLE49> Hi Jeff
1ANDONLY1> does one know the difference between astral travel and a dream
.Royce3> Jeff just had his computer repaired. We weren't sure he would be
1ANDONLY1> hi bauble
1ANDONLY1> hi jeff
BAUBLE49> Hi land/Grid/onlyl
.Soaring Eagle> greeting earthlings
.Soaring Eagle> lol
.jefflove> it is working ok
.Royce3> 1and, I want to get to that, since it is such a good question. Just
hold on to it for a moment.
BAUBLE49> I don't know the difference, land
.Soaring Eagle> my daughters handiwork! forgive her dry humor.
.Soaring Eagle> lol
DORCASQ> I think a person would be able to tell the difference between a
dream and astral travel.
.Joasha> hey Jeff, good to be with you. been a long summer
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.Royce3> Hello Kolta, welcome.
.Kolta> Hi all!
BAUBLE49> Hi K!
.Joasha> hey Kolta ((hugs))
DORCASQ> Hi K
.Kolta> Hi Bauble, Dorc
1ANDONLY1> (grid) i experience sometimes, that it is more than a dream and I
feel myself coming back to the world
.Kolta> And Joasha
1ANDONLY1> Hi K
.Kolta> Hi 1and
BAUBLE49> Kolta, Joasha is almost done with her house. They are moved in and
she loves it.
.Royce3> Well, ok, but just hold for a moment 1and. We should do the prayer
.Kolta> Congratulations Joasha
1ANDONLY1> (grid) I wish I had a home
1ANDONLY1> good luck joasha
.Kolta> Michael is in a nursing home now. Keep him on the list.
.Joasha> ty. getting ready to put the pond in next month so the winter snows
can fill it up
DORCASQ> Where are you living, Grid?
BAUBLE49> Prayer list: Wally----Alice
.jefflove> very interesting radio program tonight on the Mike Siegel Show.
Someone called DAN will be interviewed about the Galatic Federation.
1ANDONLY1> I am at a cousins but looking for an apartment
BAUBLE49> Dan Milman, maybe???
.Royce3> If anyone has a friend--human or otherwise--living or past please
feel free to put them on the list.
DORCASQ> I think 1and has been dreaming about your new apt., Grid.
.Joasha> Prayer list: my father Rodney and the animals
.Kolta> Jeff, Gary told me you called and I have been trying to return your
BAUBLE49> You'll land on your feet eventually, Grid. Good luck
1ANDONLY1> Jefflove why did you put DAN in capitals??????????
.Royce3> Very good , Joasha.
1ANDONLY1> that is very nteresting
.Royce3> They will be listed, Joasha. Anyone else?
.jefflove> to catch your attention
.Kolta> Who are you addressing Jeff. You got a couple of comments
1ANDONLY1> Cheers bauble
BAUBLE49> OK, Jeffy
.jefflove> the last name was not listed.
.Joasha> Jeff, you and I must have a talk sometime.
.Royce3> Yes, who in the world is Dan, anyway?
1ANDONLY1> You have caught it Jeff we understand it DAN
BAUBLE49> Maybe it's DAN THE MAN???
.Royce3> I'm sure, Bauble.
.jefflove> good idea Joasha
.Royce3> Jeff, do you have any more information?
.Joasha> I don't thing Dan Millman has any thing to do with Galactic
Federation, unless he has taken a new path of public communication
.Royce3> Yes, I agree with you Joasha.
BAUBLE49> Oh, OK Joasha
1ANDONLY1> We understand DAN
1ANDONLY1> as something personal to us invoving galactic comunication
.jefflove> if you have a chance listen
BAUBLE49> I never got to the moon, land
.Royce3> All right, shall we go to 1and's question?
1ANDONLY1> nor did we
.Kolta> Ok Jeff. I can get attention also. GARY told me you CALLED and
tried to RETURN YOUR CALL.
BAUBLE49> Yes Royce
.jefflove> Ill call later
BAUBLE49> OK KOLTA!
.Joasha> hey you all. The Whole Life Expo (the 10th year I think) is at Vet's
Memorial in Columbus the 14th and 15th of Oct.
.Kolta> ok Jeff
.Royce3> Ok, 1and will you post your question again?
BAUBLE49> Good boy, Jeff......:)
.Soaring Eagle> brb
.Soaring Eagle> - signed off -
1ANDONLY1> what question was that Royce?
.Royce3> We will keep that date in mind, Joasha.
BAUBLE49> Are you going Joasha?
.Joasha> dreaming or astral traveling
.Joasha> yes Bauble, I have a booth
1ANDONLY1> oh yes does anyone know the difference?
.Royce3> Yes,1and, you wanted to talk about the difference between the two.
1ANDONLY1> yes Royce
1ANDONLY1> What is everyones oppinion?
.Royce3> I can tell you that astral projection seems very much like normal
consciousness, except one is in an astral state.
.Royce3> One sees familiar objects and things--events--unfold in a natural
1ANDONLY1> But how can you tell the difference Royce?
DORCASQ> You could be dreaming you are astral traveling
1ANDONLY1> One could appear to be in a fantacy land that is familiar
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.Joasha> brb, have to go let Katie Dog in and that is down a flight of
.Royce3> If you are having, say, a lucid dream you will be able to create
things in the dream from your imagination.
.Royce3> Hello vernius, welcome
BAUBLE49> Complicate it Dorcas..:)
.Royce3> We are talking about lucid dreaming and astral projection.
DORCASQ> :) Baub
BAUBLE49> OH, by astral you mean lucid, Royce?
.Royce3> Doing astral projection, one doesn't create imaginary worlds.
1ANDONLY1> But what if one dreams of maybe getting up and going somewere and
has made a change and when awaken the change has been made?
DORCASQ> What does one do in astral projection, Royce?
.Royce3> A lucid dream is like any other dream except for the fact that the
dreamer controls the action as he chooses.
VERNIUS> - signed off -
.Kolta> Astral and lucid can be two entirely different things
BAUBLE49> THat's sleepwalking, land!!
1ANDONLY1> But Royce to imagine is everything to know is nothing at all
BAUBLE49> That's what I thought K
DORCASQ> Let's leave out the lucid for now so as not to complicate it more.
BAUBLE49> Now you're going philosophic on me, land
.Kolta> Good point 1and
1ANDONLY1> who is to say the imaginary world is not real
.Joasha> sorry, have to go. someone has come. have a good chat
.Royce3> 1and, you are getting too far from the central reality here--too
philosophical. One will know when they are astrally projecting.
.Joasha> - signed off -
DORCASQ> Bye J
BAUBLE49> bye J
BAUBLE49> land is in a 'dreamy' mood tonight
1ANDONLY1> oh know they don't Royce unless they can tell the difference
between the two
.Royce3> I don't think the literature has every suggested that one might
become confused about the differences. However, I might be wrong about that.
DORCASQ> Has anyone here ever astral projected?
1ANDONLY1> yes all 3 of us
DORCASQ> What was it like?
.Kolta> I think I have been
BAUBLE49> On purpose, land?
.Royce3> I have had lucid dreams.
BAUBLE49> Not me
1ANDONLY1> ordo you call it mind travel
1ANDONLY1> yes bauble
.Royce3> Well, there is also remote viewing.
.Royce3> Remote viewing isn't the same as astral traveling.
DORCASQ> Well, couldn't you tell the difference, 1and?
.jefflove> does anyone have stories about astral travel.
.Royce3> Astral travel is commonly called an out of body experience.
1ANDONLY1> yes dorc we believe we can
DORCASQ> But you asked the question, 1and.
BAUBLE49> land probably does, Jeff
1ANDONLY1> the conciousness travells, into other realities
.Royce3> Lucid dreams may be related obe's, but they aren't the same, at
least not according to most authorities.
1ANDONLY1> just trying to start a topic of conversation dorc
DORCASQ> Ohhh, ok 1and, you sure did succeed.
.Royce3> Well, let's not confuse lucid dreaming with astral projection.
1ANDONLY1> who is an authority on us Royce
.Royce3> Oh, I'm sure that person hasn't been yet located, 1and.
1ANDONLY1> we must believe in ourselves Royce that is the way forward
.Royce3> the search is on
BAUBLE49> do you think obe's and lucid dreams are the same, land?
DORCASQ> What do you mean, who is an authority on us?
.Royce3> But 1and, I'm not suggesting that you not believe in yourselves.
.Royce3> I am just trying to frame the conversation with accepted definitions.
.Kolta> Can't we be our own authorities?
BAUBLE49> They mean they are their own authority on themselves, Dorcas
DORCASQ> Authority on what?
BAUBLE49> on what they feel they are experiencing
DORCASQ> thanks, Baub
1ANDONLY1> Every one of us should be their own authority Dorc
.Royce3> If we don't define what we mean by remote viewing, astral travel,
obe's and lucid dreaming we will be in for a confusing evening.
.Kolta> That is right 1and
DORCASQ> I think we know the definitions
BAUBLE49> Yes, I'm very confused already
.Royce3> Good, will you summarize them Dorcasq?
.Kolta> I agree Dorc. We do know the definitions
DORCASQ> Does anyone not know?
BAUBLE49> not me
.Royce3> Dorcasq will now summarize
.Royce3> You have the floor dorcasq
DORCASQ> Lucid dreaming is when you know you are dreaming and control the
BAUBLE49> now don't lay down on the job, Dorc
.Royce3> Very good ,dorcasq, proceed.
DORCASQ> Astral travel is when you have an OBE
DORCASQ> What are the other ones?
.Royce3> remote viewing
DORCASQ> Remote viewing is when you can see a particular place.
BAUBLE49> thank you Dorcas
.Royce3> Can you do the same with astral projection, Dorcasq?
1ANDONLY1> on the physical plane Dorc
DORCASQ> I'm not too sure what happens during astral projection.
1ANDONLY1> or the etheric
BAUBLE49> consciously awake to do remote viewing
DORCASQ> Yes Baub
.Royce3> Well, one need not astrally project to be aware of the etheric
plane. We should keep that in mind.
1ANDONLY1> yes Royce
.Royce3> In fact, only a minority of people astrally project. Remote viewing
is far more popular, at least according to the research done at the Stanford
.Royce3> more common, too
DORCASQ> Is astral projection done purposely?
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1ANDONLY1> When we astral we reach a higher vibration that takes us into a
different world to ours with many other entities
.Kolta> However, it is very possible that we all astrally project when we
dream at night.
DORCASQ> Thanks 1and
1ANDONLY1> sometimes K
BAUBLE49> To astrally project--does that mean going somewhere on purpose in
DORCASQ> Then we are back to the original question.
.Royce3> Welcome back, soaring, we just finished defining various terms being
used in our conversation tonight: remote viewing, astral projection, lucid
.Kolta> Hi Soaring
1ANDONLY1> Projecting is to do it consciously (1and) travel can be
.Kolta> It depends if it is lucid dreaming or unconscious dreaming, I would
.Royce3> So I gather that you are uncertain about what state you are
experiencing doing your experimentation, 1and. Is that the general thrust of
1ANDONLY1> no Royce
DORCASQ> I wish I knew what state I am in now!
.Royce3> I have known a few people who astrally project; however, they don't
seem to have a lot of success with going on long journeys with the technique.
.Soaring Eagle> hi.us? 50 choices lol
BAUBLE49> Pennsylvania, Dorcas!
1ANDONLY1> I am saying that to 'projest
.Royce3> Ok, 1and, you have the floor. Expand on what you mean.
1ANDONLY1> project is a state of consciousness. A purpousefull thought
1ANDONLY1> but you can 'astral travel' whilst dreaming
.Kolta> I think so. I have done it in trance meditation
.Royce3> Well, that brings up a question: are you really astrally projecting
in a dream or are you dreaming about astrally projecting?
.Soaring Eagle> what if we are astral traveling now. and we are 'dreaming'
BAUBLE49> Didn't Shirley MacLaine do that (astral travel) but was connected
to a silver cord
DORCASQ> That is another big question, Soaring.
.Royce3> According to many esoteric traditions all of life is an illusion,
.Kolta> People have dream like experiences abut abductions, so why can't they
have dream like experiences of obe
BAUBLE49> True K
.Soaring Eagle> I think there are many dimensions, who is to say that we have
not simply chosen to experience this particular one in order to progress as
.Royce3> Well, that brings up the question, Kolta, of whether people are just
dreaming about an abduction or if they are really abducted.
BAUBLE49> It may all be the same thing, we just need to put words to each
different experience in our dreams
.Royce3> I will just suggest that if we don't follow our semantics closely
some of our people here are going to get lost.
.Soaring Eagle> if it is in their energy field, isnt it 'real' at least to
1ANDONLY1> (grid) I remember once I visited a place in my dream and met some
friends there The following day I described the place I had been to and met
my friends they had the sam dream at that time I knew it
1ANDONLY1> was more than a dream some weeks later I stumbeled across the
palce I had visited in a dream state.!!!!!
.Kolta> If you read Mack, most of his clients' dreamlike experiences are
1ANDONLY1> I have also visited other worlds
.Royce3> Well that is most interesting 1and. Tell us about the place.
DORCASQ> I have had experiences that I previously dreamed about too.
.Kolta> I have had dreams that have occurred in real time later on
1ANDONLY1> weather they are real or not they may have been created on the
astral realms but I have met friends there
.Soaring Eagle> same thing happened to me land. for years I dreamed of these
places didnt understand why I kept being taken back. Finally visited Isreal
and Egypt. There they were. Not the famous places. these were
.Soaring Eagle> just out of the way places
.Royce3> Well, soaring, that sounds like a form of remote viewing.
BAUBLE49> Very interesting , Eagle
1ANDONLY1> I know the feeling soaring but you are talking to Grid
.Kolta> What has been created on the astral level can be very real
.Soaring Eagle> Isnt that somewhat what happened last week when I said that
the last two had died on the sub?
BAUBLE49> What was your feeling when you saw these places in 'real time',
1ANDONLY1> There are many strange things on the astral half thought forms and
realities in a vibrational sence
.Royce3> According to some occultists, anything created on the etheric plane
can become, and usually does, a reality on our physical plane.
BAUBLE49> Yes, Soar
1ANDONLY1> all things are created on the astral to become a reality
.Soaring Eagle> Honestly, I cried. I knew that what I had been avoiding all
my life was now happening. I believe that the use of these 'gifts' talents
carry a great responsibility and respect to the universe
DORCASQ> So maybe we create our lives in our dreams?
1ANDONLY1> however the physical world is in its vibrational state on the
.Kolta> What occurs below also occurs above
BAUBLE49> Yes, your ability is a heavy responsibility, Eagle
.Royce3> Well, that may in fact be the case but you will have people disagree
with you there, 1and.
1ANDONLY1> astral is another state of mental (only1
.Kolta> I agree with 1and, Royce
1ANDONLY1> (grid) what is within is also without
.Soaring Eagle> I felt my 7th child coming here level by level. First and
only time that happened to me. I came to understand that babies dont just
'pop' into being. nor are they completely here when they are born.
.Soaring Eagle> It takes years
1ANDONLY1> micro macro stuff you know
.Royce3> Remote viewers often see the future as it manifests on the astral
plane, but what manifests there doesn't always come true on the physical
.Royce3> That explains why some grim predictions don't come true.
.Kolta> That is because energy changes Royce
1ANDONLY1> every one is connected to the other royce(only1
BAUBLE49> And this was part of your experience in Egypt, Eagle?
.Royce3> yes, kolta
.Soaring Eagle> No, that came later.
1ANDONLY1> (only1)there is the physical which is of body and now, there is
the astral which is of mind and there is the spiritual which is of soul
.Kolta> And all three are connected 1and
BAUBLE49> very good, onlyl
1ANDONLY1> (grid) my son is beyond the astral is on the other realms
.Royce3> I just want to caution everyone that terminology varies.
BAUBLE49> Soaring, so how many children do you have?
1ANDONLY1> yes royce we all agree that is the problem (words)
BAUBLE49> Because of the work he's doing, Grid?
1ANDONLY1> yes bauble
.Soaring Eagle> I have nine
DORCASQ> Wow! Eagle
.Kolta> Wow Soaring!
1ANDONLY1> thats a lot to cater for eagle
BAUBLE49> Say their names real fast 3 times, Eagle........:)
.Soaring Eagle> comitting to my path in life has proven to be a challenge to
the accepted societal ideas of what a mother should and shouldnt do!
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.Soaring Eagle> hey you,hey you, hey you....lol
DORCASQ> I can imagine, Eagle
.Royce3> Hello fiver, welcome
1ANDONLY1> are you 49 soaring eagle I just thought that (grid)
.Kolta> Hi Fiver
BAUBLE49> Have you figured that one out yet, Eagle!!!!!
FIVER11> hiya royce
.Royce3> We are talking about astral projection, among other things, Fiver.
FIVER11> thanks royce
.Royce3> I have something I would like to post.
.Royce3> It isn't too long.
.Soaring Eagle> hi fiver!
1ANDONLY1> hope not
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FIVER11> obe...any rlation to nde
.Kolta> Hi Sat
.Royce3> hi sat
DORCASQ> Hifiver - I like that
.Royce3> ©1996-1998 by Bill Guggenheim & Judy Guggenheim
.Royce3> authors of Hello From Heaven! published by Bantam Books
.Royce3> Have you been contacted by a loved one who has died? After-death
communication (ADC) is probably as old as mankind, but ours is the first
complete research study of this field. These spiritual
.Royce3> experiences are extremely common, and in many other parts of the
world they are discussed openly and freely.
DORCASQ> Hi Sat
.Royce3> During the past eight years, we interviewed 2,000 people who live in
all fifty American states and the ten Canadian provinces. Ranging in age from
children to the elderly, they represent diverse
.Royce3> social, educational, economic, occupational, and religious
backgrounds. We conservatively estimate that at least 50 million Americans,
or 20% of the population, have had one or more ADC experiences
.Royce3> and the actual numbers may be closer to double these figures!
BAUBLE49> Hi Sat
FIVER11> thanks for the welcome
BAUBLE49> Just for you hifive!!!!
FIVER11> LOL thanks
.Royce3> So how many of you have communicated with a loved one who has passed?
.Kolta> What is a ADC experience?
1ANDONLY1> what is ADC?
.Royce3> After Death Communication.
BAUBLE49> Not me
.Royce3> Did you just read what I posted?????
FIVER11> havent but want to...it provides hope
.Kolta> I have seen my mother after she passed on
1ANDONLY1> oh we have all 3 of us
BAUBLE49> I did
.Soaring Eagle> my g-father became one of my most powerful teachers after he
1ANDONLY1> Eagle are you 49?
.Soaring Eagle> transitioned
.Royce3> Very good. Who would like to talk about these experiences?
.Kolta> I have also communicated with a friend who has passed on
.Royce3> Who wants to be first
.Soaring Eagle> obviously, spelling was not one of the things he taught me!
.Royce3> I can identify with that, Soaring. I know the feeling.
BAUBLE49> so what did he teach you?
DORCASQ> Don't everyone go first!
.Soaring Eagle> He taught me that the disembodied spirits depend on the
embodied ones for continued learning. there are some things that can not be
learned without the physical form...
FIVER11> I do have a question though
.Soaring Eagle> because I was able to accept his presence he depended on me
.Royce3> Yes, fiver?
1ANDONLY1> (Grid) we have had many experiences, most recently my Son Arron he
showed me where he is and the different levels he was reaching he became very
bight and had to cloak himself so I could look at him
1ANDONLY1> he has shown me a lot of the other realities and the work to be
BAUBLE49> Oh, really, Soar? Interesting
.Soaring Eagle> cool!!!!!!landonlyl
BAUBLE49> great, Grid
.Royce3> Tell us about the work to be done, !and
FIVER11> Generaly you hear alot babout the other side based...be it the
classic near death expierince which has a roman catholism stlye to it...there
aree so many, doesnt that create problems?
BAUBLE49> In the Catholic church we were told to pray for the dead
BAUBLE49> to help them
1ANDONLY1> He showed me the web of creation and the vibrations that can be
felt of diffent imbalances. He will be with me to help with my future plan
to work with humanity
.Kolta> This is one instance where the Catholic Church knows what it is
doing. After all, the soul lives on after physical death
.Royce3> Fiver, I have heard a lot that isn't associated with Catholicism.
The work of the Spiritualist churs in England is a good example.
.Royce3> Buddhists talk about this sort of thing, too.
BAUBLE49> very good Royce
FIVER11> Im alsoe roman catholic....however if your dead you either go to
heaven or hell...ifyour in hell, theres no redemption...if you in heaven you
dont need prayer..and purgatory was invented to meet
FIVER11> political needs
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BAUBLE49> You may be right about that five
DORCASQ> hi MP
.Royce3> Hi mphoover, welcome. We are talking about after death
1ANDONLY1> when I first saw him he was glowing orange and he showed me a
white city as he stood on a cliff with other being that we know as light
being and work with he shoed me heaven and much is done there
.Kolta> I do not believe that part of Catholic teaching Fiver. Sorry
BAUBLE49> hi MPH
.Soaring Eagle> hi mph
.Kolta> Hi Hoover
FIVER11> but royce if theres such a discrepncy to these reports doesnt that
tell you that theres something not right?
FIVER11> either do I kolta
BAUBLE49> You mean about hell, Kolta? Me either
FIVER11> sorry..im actaully recovering roman catholic
DORCASQ> Me too Fiver
.Kolta> I mean about hell. That concept can be thrown in the trash
BAUBLE49> me too
MPHOOVER> crap, babys cryin...gotta go...be back later
.Royce3> Oh, it's not easy to sort out, fiver. Some suggest that a form of
telepathy may explain all of this. I'm not saying I believe it; but that's
one of the theories.
MPHOOVER> - signed off -
BAUBLE49> Maybe institutional religions went astray awhile back
.Kolta> Come back soon Hoover
.Soaring Eagle> I prefer to hear these things from people who have been
there...not people easing there own fears of the unknown(ie churches) I am
not anti church just anti sheep
.Kolta> Very true Bauble
.Soaring Eagle> baa baaa
1ANDONLY1> there is no hell evil is created in the mind of man and the only
way to stop it is turn your back on it
.Soaring Eagle> I have been to hell
FIVER11> sounds good....I just wandered if theres a way to rationalize it
.jefflove> I have a hell travel service
BAUBLE49> Yes, Eagle
FIVER11> so have i...its called high school
FIVER11> and college
FIVER11> and adult hood
DORCASQ> Ughhh - yes
.Kolta> We create our own hell
.Satellite8> major depression is hell
DORCASQ> Hell travel service, Jeff?
1ANDONLY1> hell is the experience of mind so one can learn
1ANDONLY1> or rather experience
.Royce3> All I can say, fiver, is that I'm certain that there's legitimate
phenomena behind this. I don't think we are talking about fraud or
.Kolta> But because we create it, we can get out of it
FIVER11> so tahts why I dated my ex girlfreind...your right though..I do
belive in that theory that you create your own hell or heaven
BAUBLE49> When is the next trip, Jeff, leaving???
.jefflove> Any time
1ANDONLY1> we creat the world we live in
.Kolta> True 1and
1ANDONLY1> and the way we view our world has a reflection on our psyche
.Kolta> The world is what we make of it
BAUBLE49> Should have known better, five......
DORCASQ> I wish I had known this a long time ago - would have changed things
.Soaring Eagle> I saw hell and you are right, it is within ourselves
therefore we can project it as a location.
.Satellite8> right, Dorcasq
.Royce3> However, we should concede that some very learned people--spiritual
people--deeply believe in hell as discussed by the Catholic church. So we
should respect that view, too.
FIVER11> royce, some scientists bleive NDES are nothing but physilogical
changes in teh brain that occurs during death...I of course hope this isnt
.Soaring Eagle> but the location follows us because it is our own creation
FIVER11> good point Royce
BAUBLE49> but we can choose not to visit that location, Eagle, huh?
1ANDONLY1> Eagle - the feelings we have we project as a symbol so as we can
try to understand it on an earthly level
BAUBLE49> good land
1ANDONLY1> (1and - says) hell is an experience not a place
BAUBLE49> Oh, good
DORCASQ> Good definition 1and
.Royce3> Fiver, I thing that an objective study of the phenomena should
convince us otherwise. And all of the esoteric traditions can provide each of
us with a way of proving the truth for ourselves.
.Kolta> True 1and
.Soaring Eagle> absolutely. But I am greatful for my experience I wish to
know every part of me and my inner world...how to heal that which we refuse
.Royce3> There is a consciousness that exists beyond the physical brain.
BAUBLE49> Tuff job, Eagle
1ANDONLY1> oh yes Royce
.Kolta> But consciousness does not die with physical death
FIVER11> but everything seems relative royce...that doesnt lend itself to be
true..then again you have to define what truth is and I dont think this is a
phylospphy (sp) chat room
.Royce3> I do suggest that you all take a look at some of the recent articles
concerning consciousness that have been posted on our message board over the
past few days.
1ANDONLY1> 1and - we can not know what we are if we do not experience what we
1ANDONLY1> i.e. conversations with God
FIVER11> thats deep 1 and oonly1
.Soaring Eagle> We all seem to want to deal with the non threatening pretty
things.Always talking of the light, what about our shadows? How can we
continue to speak of a heaven of a blissful place when we refuse to
.Soaring Eagle> explore 'hell'?
DORCASQ> We cannot know good if we don't know bad
.Royce3> Proving the existence of a super consciousness to the Western
academic community won't be easy, although some progress is being made, I
FIVER11> it seems on this planetr we deal with the shadow enough
.Kolta> We are a combination of good and evil. We need to know our shadow
DORCASQ> I am very familiar with mine.
BAUBLE49> The media is great at doing that, Five
1ANDONLY1> conversations with god by Neale Donald Walsch ISBN: 0-340-69325-8
.Royce3> Buddhists, of course, don't believe that evil exists.
FIVER11> soudns like a jung follower
** ESTELLA27 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (10 members now) **
.Royce3> Hello, Estella, welcome.
FIVER11> hiya estlla
.Soaring Eagle> do we???If we did wouldnt we be able to understand and
utilize the shadows better than we do???
BAUBLE49> Hi Estella
ESTELLA27> Hello everyone
ESTELLA27> how are you all?
.Royce3> We are talking about after death communication and the
consciousness that exists beyond the body.
FIVER11> very true but evil does exist....undeniably
1ANDONLY1> Evil does exist but in the conciousness of man kind and that is
what feeds it
ESTELLA27> I see
.Soaring Eagle> I was once taught that 'evil' is the rejection of the dark by
the light or vice versa. both are necessary. Rejecting hell hwile embracing
heaven is therefore evil.
1ANDONLY1> it exists in the collective of humanity
.Soaring Eagle> hi estella
1ANDONLY1> programming is a major part of it
FIVER11> 1 word...aushwitz...
ESTELLA27> - signed off -
1ANDONLY1> original sin: fear -------fear of death
.Kolta> That was quick
1ANDONLY1> waswn't it K
.Soaring Eagle> aushwitz...a rejection of one by another...same thing over
.Royce3> Well, fiver, I have heard that some suggest the victims of the death
camps made a decision before they were born to experience that hell on earth.
I don't agree, but that's a theory i have heard.
.Royce3> The good folks with the A.R.E accept that notion, Fiver.
FIVER11> wow..very true eagel...i hate to quote star wars when speaking about
such a dark subject but fear leads to ahte
FIVER11> etc etc
.Soaring Eagle> To hate the perpetrators and reject them only feeds that
which we despise...we become what we despise if we chose that path
FIVER11> hate even
.Kolta> They do Royce?????
.Royce3> Yes, Kolta.
.Kolta> I have never come across that
FIVER11> interesting Royce...Ive heard a similar theroy
FIVER11> people chossing to come down as down syndrome etc etc
.Soaring Eagle> I heard those wprds from the mouth of my five year old son...
BAUBLE49> Do you remember where you heard that Five?
1ANDONLY1> if it was planned befor birth to expiereince abuse. does that mean
that one agreed to be evil before they incarnated???????
BAUBLE49> Say that agian EAgle????
.Soaring Eagle> he chose to come here reluctantly..He remebered
.Kolta> Of course, we do choose, in way, what our next lives are going to be
like with the karma that we build up
1ANDONLY1> If so is that evil or ungood???
FIVER11> which bauble..the down syndrome thing?..it was in a book about
NDEs...kinda popular...guide to the light or something
.Royce3> Well, this isn't a new idea. If one assumes that reincarnation is a
fact, it stands to reason that some people will be making a decision to
experience the worst that life has to offer. Such a life
.Royce3> of misery would be a way of learning, I suppose.
BAUBLE49> OK f
BAUBLE49> Five I meant
.Soaring Eagle> or of teaching....
FIVER11> lol bauble.....
.Royce3> Yes, Soaring.
.Kolta> Royce, that depends on how you deal with your karma
.Soaring Eagle> one of my favorite quotes: I once screamed at
BAUBLE49> Makes sence then if reincarnation does exist
.Royce3> Very true, Kolta
.Soaring Eagle> God for letting the children starve until I realized
1ANDONLY1> DID ANYONE HEAR MY QUESTIONS?
FIVER11> but thats almost mascochistic..to constatnly come down here and
expeirnce the pain of lost...than again I see your point about learning
.Soaring Eagle> that the starving children were God screaming at me
.Kolta> What wer eyour questions 1and? Aorry
.Royce3> Ask again, 1and.
1ANDONLY1> please go back its too much to repeat
BAUBLE49> sorry land but I missed that
FIVER11> impressive eagle
.Soaring Eagle> YUK? pleasse explain baub
FIVER11> evil or ungood?
BAUBLE49> What a terrible thing to hear, Eagle
.Soaring Eagle> why?
.Royce3> I'm not sure that one agrees to be evil. I don't think that is part
of the scenario.
DORCASQ> I can't find your question 1and
.Soaring Eagle> I agree royce..
FIVER11> some can argue that thoer the same thing..evil and ungood....
.Kolta> We all have a shadow side
BAUBLE49> You alone can't be blamed for all the tears produced in this world
.Kolta> Like yin and yang
.Soaring Eagle> the agreement is to teach or learn we create the circumstances
.Royce3> Someone who commits bad deeds is probably not totally clear about
what they are doing to their spiritual center.
BAUBLE49> Very true, Royce
1ANDONLY1> there is life plan - soul plan - world plan (grid)
.Soaring Eagle> the point Baub was we can either sit and lament the supposed
injustices or realize that perhaps they are there to show us how to climb to
.Kolta> Or that person is not looking at their shadow side, Royce. Same thing
.Royce3> Yes ,kolta. And frankly, I'm not sure I buy into the notion the idea
that people choose to be victims.
FIVER11> Hate to be dark royce..dont take this the worng way but I dont think
people are really concerened with thoer spiritual center as much as they used
to be....for example look at Jerry Springer...dont
FIVER11> get me wrong..
BAUBLE49> Like working at developing ourselves spiritually, Eagle?
1ANDONLY1> actualy it is - LIFE PLAN - WORLD PLAN - SOUL PLAN ( mind obdy
spirit the triad
.Royce3> Oh, Fiver, I agree completely. We are living in the world of
consumerism. There's very little spirituality among the majority. No
question about that.
.Soaring Eagle> victim is OUR term I have yet to hear one story of a life
after death exper. where someone feels themselves to be a 'victim'
1ANDONLY1> ( father son holy ghost ) maiden mother croan
** GIMPGUTTER just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (10 members now) **
.Royce3> Hello Gimgutter.
BAUBLE49> I agree,land
.Soaring Eagle> hi gimp
.Royce3> We are talking about after death experiences.
FIVER11> very true Royce
BAUBLE49> That's good to know, Eagle
GIMPGUTTER> - signed off -
1ANDONLY1> that woz quick
.Soaring Eagle> bye gimpy
FIVER11> i hate to say it but IM agnostic when it comes to that..
FIVER11> with a name like gimp im kinda glad it was quick
1ANDONLY1> Royce there is much spirituality amongst people we know
BAUBLE49> The Springer's of the world maybe have totallly forgotten that they
ever had a spirtitual center.
.Royce3> Agnostic in regard to what, Fiver. And yes, we are probably
fortunate that gimp left.
1ANDONLY1> The world is changing only 1
.Kolta> We can also choose how much power the material world has over us
BAUBLE49> You draw them to you, land
1ANDONLY1> yes k
.Soaring Eagle> I can only speak for my own experiences and my own teachers
information. whether it 'grows corn' for anybody else is beyond me.
1ANDONLY1> we must do Baub
1ANDONLY1> yes Soaring Eagle we can only speek for ourselves
.Royce3> I think most would agree that we are approaching a turning
point--that is, our civilization is. We are in the midst of paradigm wars.
BAUBLE49> I like that expression, Eagle :)
FIVER11> lol..agnostic to most things in life Royce...Im bit of a skeptic in
regards to everything but want desperatly to belive in something...I think I
speaek for most of the nation when it comes to
FIVER11> that...we all grew cycniical and its horrible..one of the worst
things to be in this world is apathetic
.Soaring Eagle> ty
.Soaring Eagle> That is a very honest statement fiver ty
.Royce3> As I have stated on the message board, many, if not most, believe
that man is nothing more than a blood and guts computer.
1ANDONLY1> but we must all recogonize who and what we are
BAUBLE49> You probably speak for many of us FIVE
.Soaring Eagle> I dont agree fiver but I appreciate honesty in any form *s*
.Kolta> But, we do not have to believe that way, Royce.
.Royce3> Fiver, you might want to explore the esoteric traditions.
.Royce3> No, Kolta, we may exercise our free will--that's true.
1ANDONLY1> esoteric ancient wisdom
FIVER11> royce dont you think thats cold?
.Kolta> But, this is where Fiver is at right now.
BAUBLE49> Huh, Five??
.Kolta> not where Fiver is at
FIVER11> unemotional..empty...blood and guts machine
DORCASQ> phew - thought you meant esoteric traditions
BAUBLE49> me too!!!!
1ANDONLY1> we speek for ourselves
.Royce3> Oh, yes, firver, it's cold indeed. But I think man is more than a
.Royce3> Or even a complex one.
1ANDONLY1> we are more than a computer
1ANDONLY1> much more
BAUBLE49> So,Five, have you ever looked into the esoteric traditions?
.Royce3> Yes, I think that those of us here accept the notion of a super
consciousness that exits beyond the brain or body.
1ANDONLY1> we only have a physical vehicle
FIVER11> no bauble cant say that I ahve...I havent opened myself up
persoanlly to other teachings
BAUBLE49> Just to remind everyone, we only have 5 more minutes on the chat
.Royce3> 1and, we have much more than that. Your astral projection should
demonstrate that to you.
.Royce3> Yes, we are nearing the end of the chat. We can continue all of this
discussion tomorrow at 6 pm est.
1ANDONLY1> but we should venture into other realms of exisitence
DORCASQ> I think 1and means only our vehicle is physical
.Soaring Eagle> ahhh but I will miss you! (that is what my 3 year old says) ;)
.Kolta> Bauble, you beat Jeff to being the time keeper tonight
BAUBLE49> ok Dorcas TY
BAUBLE49> I try, K
.Royce3> Jeff, will soon lose his time keeper's job.
FIVER11> LOL hey guys thanks for letting me caht with you..it was a pleasure
.Soaring Eagle> tomorrow is wed. Dont we meet thursday?
.Royce3> Come back again fiver.
1ANDONLY1> Grid go with God
BAUBLE49> Tues and Wed Soar at 6pm
1ANDONLY1> 1and be as one with god
.Soaring Eagle> God go with Grid
.Soaring Eagle> lol
.jefflove> its 7:30
FIVER11> and thanks again for making me feel welcome..
1ANDONLY1> Only 1 sweet dreams
BAUBLE49> sure Five
DORCASQ> Thanks for coming Fiver
.Soaring Eagle> oh ya guessn I was astral projecting and got lost lol
.Royce3> I want to thank everyone for coming tonight.
1ANDONLY1> had a good night
.Royce3> bye all
BAUBLE49> good chat all and goodnight until tomorrow
.Kolta> I get lost too sometimes, Eagle
DORCASQ> Yes, thanks everyone
.Royce3> See you all tomorrow.
1ANDONLY1> we always get lost
.Kolta> Good chat, Royce
.Royce3> - signed off -
.Soaring Eagle> see ya tommorow
FIVER11> take care of yourselves....
FIVER11> - signed off -
.Kolta> Have a nice evening everyone
BAUBLE49> - signed off -
.Soaring Eagle> nite John boy
1ANDONLY1> you too
.Kolta> - signed off -
1ANDONLY1> - signed off -
DORCASQ> - signed off -
(Logging turned off)