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The Pursuit Of Wisdom

(Logging at 1-FEB-2000 18:01)

** DORCASQ just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (2 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi Dorcasq.
** JEFFLOVE999 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (3 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi Jeff.
ROYCE3:Royce3> How is everyone today?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Hi
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> ok
DORCASQ> I'm fine, You?
ROYCE3:Royce3> It's still a bit cold out.
DORCASQ> Enough of this snow already!
ROYCE3:Royce3> I had to go to the library a few minutes ago to return a book.
It was nippy.
DORCASQ> It was beautiful on sunday but it gets old fast.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, a little snow goes a long way with me.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> the weather will improve after Weds
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, that is what they are saying. The snow should melt.
DORCASQ> Yes, I've been hearing that.
DORCASQ> Can't keep my driveway cleared.
ROYCE3:Royce3> There is a bit more ice than usual.
ROYCE3:Royce3> It is sure quiet here.
DORCASQ> Sure is!
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> this is typical of Jan
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jeff, you must be insulting people. What have you said?
DORCASQ> They are all afraid that Jeff is too WISE for them.
ROYCE3:Royce3> That may well be the case.
DORCASQ> But I know better, ha, ha, ah ha
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Most people are into Dame Folly!!!
** SATELLITE8 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (4 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi Satellite, welcome.
DORCASQ> Yes they are, Jeff!
** JOASHA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (5 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi Joasha.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> hello
JOASHA:Joasha> howdy
ROYCE3:Royce3> We were just talking about the weather.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Not nice at all.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> there is definitely weather
DORCASQ> There is that, Sat.
JOASHA:Joasha> yeah.....we have weather here also
DORCASQ> Really, Joasha?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> its not so bad here
DORCASQ> We have a temperature here too.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Should we start by discussing our proposed time changes?
JOASHA:Joasha> just lots of snow, but then it is winter here
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> we can call ourselves weather chat
** KOLTA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (6 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Folks how would it suit you to have next week's Wednesday's
chat at 7:00 EDT?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi kolta
KOLTA:Kolta> Hi all!
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> ok with me
DORCASQ> OK with me too.
KOLTA:Kolta> Fine with me!
ROYCE3:Royce3> Sat? Joasha?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i read jeff's stuff
JOASHA:Joasha> what ever. seldom get to do the wed. chat
ROYCE3:Royce3> Is the new time all right with you Sat?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> yes
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> even better
** 1CAVERAT just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (7 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> All right, now that will be for next week, not this week.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Caverat, hi.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> ok
ROYCE3:Royce3> Caverat, next week's Wednesdays chat will start at 7:00 edt.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Tuesday chats will stay at 6:00 edt.
** KKKEITH just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (8 members now) **
1CAVERAT> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi kkkeith
** 1CAVERAT just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (8 members now) **
KKKEITH> hi. looked like an interesting topic. may i watch?
1CAVERAT> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> You are most welcome to take part, KKKeith.
KOLTA:Kolta> Maybe we need tape to keep Caverat in here this time
DORCASQ> Yes, maybe
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i can supply the duct tape
KKKEITH> don't know much about it.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, he has to work during the chats. That is probably the
** 1CAVERAT just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (8 members now) **
KOLTA:Kolta> Thaks Sat!
DORCASQ> Neither do we, KKK.
ROYCE3:Royce3> KKKeith, did you have a chance to see the articles on the web
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> wb caverat
1CAVERAT> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> There are three articles dealing with the subject.
KKKEITH> i just popped in here out of curiosity. was going to a game :)
KKKEITH> where's the web site? I'll have a look.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, I'm glad you stopped in. What sort
ROYCE3:Royce3> of game?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> welcome!
DORCASQ> Where are you from KKK?
KKKEITH> scramble
ROYCE3:Royce3> Oh, I see.
KKKEITH> i'm living in Australia, but i'm american
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> julie is watching the strangest movie in here called
Space Truckers
ROYCE3:Royce3> What is the time down under?
DORCASQ> Wow for Australia
KKKEITH> 10:15 a.m. Wed
KOLTA:Kolta> It is tomorrow already!!!!
KKKEITH> no, it's today :)
DORCASQ> That is so hard to imagine!
KKKEITH> you're just in yesterday
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, we have just changed our times for these chats; maybe
this is a good time for people in Australia.
KOLTA:Kolta> I will buy that kkkeith!
ROYCE3:Royce3> Is there much interest in the paranormal and UFOs in
Australia, KKK?
KKKEITH> it's weird, when I fly home (Florida) I lose a day crossing the
int'nat'l date line but get the day back flying back
DORCASQ> Yes, that is weird
KKKEITH> I've got a friend who attends conferences here periodically. He
gave me a book to read.
KKKEITH> don't ask the title, i don't remember.
** 1CAVERAT just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (8 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> What sort of work are you doing, if I may ask.
ROYCE3:Royce3> kkk
1CAVERAT> test
KOLTA:Kolta> Tape Caverat in!
1CAVERAT> hi all
KOLTA:Kolta> So he stays
DORCASQ> What are you testing, Cave, your patience?
KKKEITH> I'm a court reporter by profession, but not working right now.
Spend a lot of time with my horses.
1CAVERAT> this new apple junk
ROYCE3:Royce3> Very good, KKK.
KOLTA:Kolta> Apple, junk???????
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> apple sauce?
ROYCE3:Royce3> KKK, do you have any special interest in UFOs or the
DORCASQ> How many horses?
KKKEITH> 2, horse and pony.
DORCASQ> That is so nice - I love horses!
KOLTA:Kolta> Horses are beautiful animals
KKKEITH> and i'm interested
ROYCE3:Royce3> I've been told that Australia is like the U.S. was in the
fifties, is that so, KKK?
1CAVERAT> what's the topi$%&HHT(
KKKEITH> Yes, only they do have AC and cell phones
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes
1CAVERAT> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> Caverat does seem to be having his troubles.
KOLTA:Kolta> Poor Caverat
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, we probably should try to get on topic.
** 1CAVERAT just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (8 members now) **
DORCASQ> How about the prayer list...anyone?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i thought the topic was JEFF
KOLTA:Kolta> wb caverat
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> wb caverat
KKKEITH> so you've got all the modern conveniences, but still a lifestyle of
the 60s.
ROYCE3:Royce3> We are going to be discussing the paths one might take in
order to gain wisdom--enlightenment.
1CAVERAT> I think I will go back to my computer. later all!!
KKKEITH> sorry cave, i came in and discombobulated everything.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> nah this stuff always happens
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> usually its jeff having problems or Kolta
ROYCE3:Royce3> No, not really, KKK.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Caverat is, I think, more interested....
ROYCE3:Royce3> in the ....
ROYCE3:Royce3> nuts and bolts of ufology.
DORCASQ> Additions or subtractions to prayer list?
** KJCB just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (9 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hello KJCB, welcome.
KJCB> hi all
KKKEITH> i think i'll head on over the scramble. Bye folks!
KKKEITH> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> Anyway, let's start with Jeff's topic. We will see where it
will lead.
1CAVERAT> - signed off -
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> hi kjcb
KJCB> hi jeff
ROYCE3:Royce3> How many of you have ever attended any sort of school for
enlightenment? How many are involved with various organizations dedicated to
the "path?"
DORCASQ> No schools, no orgs.
KJCB> not me
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I am Theosophy
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i have not
KOLTA:Kolta> I pick from different "paths"
ROYCE3:Royce3> Presently, I like to attend some of the Theosophical society
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> unless you count LaLeche League
DORCASQ> Does AA count? :)
JOASHA:Joasha> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> What is the LaLeche League?
KOLTA:Kolta> LaLeche League?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> for breastfeeding mothers
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i think that is pretty enlightened!!!
KOLTA:Kolta> oh!
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hmmmmmmm.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, I'm afraid I don't qualify for that one, Sat.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> sad.
KOLTA:Kolta> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, it depends upon one
ROYCE3:Royce3> s point of view.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> yes. and I only have my female pov to reference
** JOASHA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (7 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> The Theosophical meetings are really a lot of fun.
JOASHA:Joasha> re-hi
ROYCE3:Royce3> They are held in in PGH. each week. Is that right Jeff?
KJCB> - signed off -
DORCASQ> "Fun" doesn't sound like the right word, somehow.
DORCASQ> I think of them as being very serious.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Should Joasha ever make it into this area, we can take her to
one of the meetings.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> our meetings were lots of fun!
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> yes on Sunday At the University of Pittsburgh
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> really? my son plays chess there
JOASHA:Joasha> would love it. going to Santa Fe next week for a week
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> is this at the student union?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Sat, you dropped out of the League?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i no longer breastfeed
ROYCE3:Royce3> I see, Sat.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> my babies are almost 14
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> no at the Quadangle next to Hillman Library
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, if you were still doing it, I would be concerned.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> really?
JOASHA:Joasha> lolololol
KOLTA:Kolta> - signed off -
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> lol
JOASHA:Joasha> roflol
ROYCE3:Royce3> Anyway the Theosophical meetings have speakers each week.
** KOLTA:Kolta just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (6 members now) **
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> funny. i was accused of nursing emily at age 6
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> she was barely 3 but tall for her age
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Another approach to wisdom and enlightenment is the
positive ETs
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, let's focus on the Theosophical meetings for a moment.
KOLTA:Kolta> That is true Jeff
ROYCE3:Royce3> How do you chose the speakers, Jeff?
ROYCE3:Royce3> And what range of topics can be addressed?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> People volunteer
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> Jeff, you write well
ROYCE3:Royce3> What percentage of the group give talks?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> thank you
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> a small %
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> your writing is very expressive
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jeff is a charter member of the group.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> The President asks people from the outside
KOLTA:Kolta> What are the topics Jeff?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> he's not just a member he's the PRESIDENT!!!
ROYCE3:Royce3> How many years have you been a part of the organization, Jeff?
ROYCE3:Royce3> The Theosophical society is one of them, Kolta.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> In Pittsburgh 7 years in LA 5 years
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> you lived in LA???
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i lived in San Diego for 16 years
ROYCE3:Royce3> Can you tell us what the group has meant to you?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> yes for 15 years
KOLTA:Kolta> I was asking about the topics that are presented at the society
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> wow were you born in PA?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> one minute
ROYCE3:Royce3> I see, kolta.
DORCASQ> Kolta meant what topics do they talk about at the Theo Society.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, I understand.
KOLTA:Kolta> Thanks D
DORCASQ> Maybe between the two of us we can get an answer, K.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jeff recently gave a talk about brotherhood.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> History Of the Theosophical Society Different spiritual
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> yes
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> were you born in PA Jeff?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> or in California?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I did a talk on UFOs From The theosophical Tradition
ROYCE3:Royce3> Your leader, Andy, seems to have a bit of a background in
Zen--at least he uses some Zen terminology.
DORCASQ> Do most people in the society believe in UFOs?
ROYCE3:Royce3> How do UFOs fit into the Theosophical tradition, Jeff?
ROYCE3:Royce3> The organization puts out a very nice, slick magazine. I think
it is called Quest. Is that right, Jeff?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> The UFos are part of the process of creating the myth
of the new millenium
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Yes
KOLTA:Kolta> Right on, Jeff!!
ROYCE3:Royce3> How are Ufos creating the myth of the new millennium?
DORCASQ> What is the myth of the new milliniem?
DORCASQ> milllneuiummn
** JBROOKS21 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (7 members now) **
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Human race is moving into a radical transition that is
spiritual in nature
KOLTA:Kolta> millinium
ROYCE3:Royce3> millennium
DORCASQ> I can never get that right!
KOLTA:Kolta> Thanks Royce
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Question Do any of you know a wise and enlightened
JBROOKS21:JB> Pardon me Jeff but what makes you say that?
DORCASQ> I thought you were one, Jeff.???
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jeff, we want to ask you questions.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> anyone else
ROYCE3:Royce3> You are the expert here, today.
ROYCE3:Royce3> You are in the hot seat.
KOLTA:Kolta> You are the enlightened one today Jeff
ROYCE3:Royce3> How did you first become involved in the Theosophical society?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, if Joasha comes to town, we could all attend one of the
ROYCE3:Royce3> Presently, we have a Western PA crowd.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I regularlly attended Dr. Hoeller Gmostic Church in LA.
He was also associated with a Theosophical Chapter called the Besant
Theosophical Chapter
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> what time on sunday are the meetings?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Around one, I think.
ROYCE3:Royce3> 1:00
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> what is a Gmostic church?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> They run from 1:30 P.M. to 3:00P.M.
JOASHA:Joasha> gnostic
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> ok can anyone go to the meetings?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes sat.
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ROYCE3:Royce3> The meetings are free and open to the public.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> are they indoors?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hello, Starchild.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Welcome
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> A gnostic church is one that practices gnosticism
STARCHILD53> hi all
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> what is gnosticism?
DORCASQ> Can you describe what gnosticism is, Jeff?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> is it like agnostic?
STARCHILD53> - signed off -
JOASHA:Joasha> yes
ROYCE3:Royce3> Essentially the Gnostics believe that one can go to the
Godhead to experience God. There isn't so much stress placed upon dogma.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> ok
JOASHA:Joasha> no middle man
ROYCE3:Royce3> That is it, Joasha.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> and no overhead!!!
ROYCE3:Royce3> I like that.
JBROOKS21:JB> And who would the middleman be?
KOLTA:Kolta> I am going to become gnostic!!!!!!
DORCASQ> I like that too
JOASHA:Joasha> yes!!!!
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> keeps costs low
ROYCE3:Royce3> Preachers, priests, rabbis, etc., Jbrooks
ROYCE3:Royce3> Although the Gnostics do have religious leaders.
DORCASQ> The middleman, JB?
JOASHA:Joasha> middleman=church and writen text
JBROOKS21:JB> So there are no church leaders?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Gnosticism is a form of religion that stresses escape
from this world through esoteric knowledge
ROYCE3:Royce3> Dr. Stephan Hoeller is presently the Bishop of the Gnostic
church of America.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> that is true
ROYCE3:Royce3> They use a sort of Transpersonal Psychology.
JOASHA:Joasha> which is an oxymoron in it's self hehehehe
JBROOKS21:JB> Help me with the concept of esoteric knowledge
KOLTA:Kolta> What is transpersonal psychology?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> In the early times it was a Christian heresay
JBROOKS21:JB> Please
ROYCE3:Royce3> Esoteric traditions
ROYCE3:Royce3> Esoteric traditions stress the need to use alternate states of
consciousness in order to access higher knowledge.
ROYCE3:Royce3> These states of consciousness are reached through various
forms of meditation.
** BEGINME49 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (8 members now) **
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> It claimed to have superior knowledge of escoteric
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hello Beginme, welcome.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yoga, Sufism, Zen--these are a few of the esoteric schools.
ROYCE3:Royce3> There are others.
JOASHA:Joasha> many
ROYCE3:Royce3> Shamanism is also an esoteric school. So is Qi Gong.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> It explained the world by agenies who came from the
DORCASQ> But isn't there a dogma in all of that too?
BEGINME49> - signed off -
JOASHA:Joasha> only if it begins to censor and judge
DORCASQ> Thanks, Jo
ROYCE3:Royce3> Dorcasq, there is some dogma, but for the most part the
schools teach you the means to experience God directly, instead of reading
about someone else's experiences with God.
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JBROOKS21:JB> I think I am beginning to see the connection with the old world
gnostic worldview
BEGINME49> - signed off -
JOASHA:Joasha> if your spiritual expression is between you and your source of
creation, then you are agnostic.
ROYCE3:Royce3> In the formal sense, the Gnostics do have certain ancient
scriptures. Some of these were discovered only in recent years.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> esoteric knowledge involves knowledge of the divine and
the transcendental
ROYCE3:Royce3> An agnostic, as I use it, is someone unsure about the reality
of God.
JBROOKS21:JB> Not the traditional definition of agnosticism
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1CAVERAT> back again
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> wb c!
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jbrooks, I don't use the word. So I'm sure you are right.
JOASHA:Joasha> I had an Elder share with me one time that if a person can
listen to anothers form of believe and be truly entertained and not
antagonized then they are evolved. hehehe
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> really J?
JBROOKS21:JB> Royce your defintion seems more on track with tradition
JOASHA:Joasha> yep
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> neat
DORCASQ> I must be evolved!!!!
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> you certainly are D
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> i want to work on one essay tonight It is called An
Exercise In Understanding Wisdom
JBROOKS21:JB> I thought we were created
KOLTA:Kolta> - signed off -
JOASHA:Joasha> my point. to be evolved is not unattainable
ROYCE3:Royce3> The transcendentalism of Emerson is in line with the new
Gnostic traditions, although Emerson never had what we might call a
contemplative tradition to support his beliefs.
DORCASQ> Spiritually evolved, JB.
1CAVERAT> If I suddenly disappear, I'll be back (still testing my mobil link)
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> The exercise is based on Proverbs ( in the Bible
ROYCE3:Royce3> I don't follow you, Jeff.
ROYCE3:Royce3> What is based upon Proverbs?
JOASHA:Joasha> if we are wise, then we have no need of exercising. lolol
JOASHA:Joasha> sorry Jeff, couldn't resist
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I want to have a discussion based on that essay
ROYCE3:Royce3> Dr. Stpehan Hoeller's lectures are on the net. They are quite
DORCASQ> Go right ahead, Jeff.
ROYCE3:Royce3> He is, as we have said, the Bishop of the Gnostic church in
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> The basis is proverbs 9
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jeff, you are going to have to rapidly review the essay, then.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Can someone post this essay?
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JBROOKS21:JB> Yes please Jeff
JOASHA:Joasha> will have to say goodnight. class to teach tomorrow. lot of
prep to do yet
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> gn J nice to see you!
JOASHA:Joasha> have a good chat all.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Very good, Joasha.
JOASHA:Joasha> - signed off -
DORCASQ> Where is the essay, Jeff?
1CAVERAT> What essay?
ROYCE3:Royce3> The essay is posted on the web site. Everyone was asked to
read it before the chat.
1CAVERAT> sorry, I didn't look there first :(
DORCASQ> I DID read it...but
JBROOKS21:JB> Not everyone
ROYCE3:Royce3> Just tell us what you want to discuss regarding proverbs, Jeff.
KOLTA:Kolta> I read it
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Its on the webpage. under writers Jeff Love
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, but it is too late in the day for that, Jeff.
DORCASQ> My memory doesn't last long.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Just discuss Proverbs.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Just give us a thesis statement.
DORCASQ> Refresh my memory.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> is this the one about the 2 parties?
DORCASQ> I don't think so, Sat.
KOLTA:Kolta> Lady Folly and Lady Wisdom
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> People are invited to two parties. One is given by
Lady Wisdom The other party is a wild party given by Dame Folly
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Yes
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i read that twice
DORCASQ> Ohhh, ok
1CAVERAT> Catch you all later. Its cold out here in the truck!!
ROYCE3:Royce3> bye
DORCASQ> Turck??
DORCASQ> t r u c k
1CAVERAT> truck
KOLTA:Kolta> I the trck?
DORCASQ> Why are you in a truck?
1CAVERAT> did this misspell???
KOLTA:Kolta> Why are you in a truck
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> yeah he said mobile
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> If given a choice of parties which one would you attend?
1CAVERAT> trying a mobil link
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> lady wisdom
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> no smoking allowed there :)
KOLTA:Kolta> Lady wisdom
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, Jeff's premise seems to be that one can choose the life
of material gain and selfishness or one of service to mankind.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> probably serves tofu and soy milk
DORCASQ> Lady Wisdom, of course!
1CAVERAT> bye!!
KOLTA:Kolta> Bye caverat
ROYCE3:Royce3> Lady Wisdom is the path of service.
1CAVERAT> - signed off -
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> and of grace
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> and good intellect
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I asked the question at the Theosophical Society. Most
in attendance said they would try to attend both parties.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> huh?????
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> really???
JBROOKS21:JB> Most people do
DORCASQ> Well...yea, don't want to miss anything.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, most people try.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> oh i am thinking literal parties
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> dumb me
KOLTA:Kolta> In Jeff's article on the Western tradition of Wisdom and in his
proverbs article, wisdom is a feminine attribute
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Why would you choose the party you do?
JBROOKS21:JB> what is the risk associated with each choice?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> JB a good question
ROYCE3:Royce3> Gnostics believe the third aspect of the trinity is Holy
Spirit, who is the Sophia and female aspect of God.
JBROOKS21:JB> and what are the rewards?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I wrote about consequences in the essay
JBROOKS21:JB> URL please
ROYCE3:Royce3> From a Christian standpoint, I would guess, salvation, Jbrooks.
JBROOKS21:JB> How about from yourstand point Royce?
DORCASQ> I would rather meet the kind of people who would be at the wisdom
party - that is why I chose that.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jbrooks, it is our associated web site. Just click on the web
page tag at the top of this page.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i will be right back
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> From my standpoint, service to God is paramount. However, I
don't see God in a personified form. I see God much as a Taoist would.
JBROOKS21:JB> Paramount to what?
KOLTA:Kolta> How does a Taoist see God
ROYCE3:Royce3> Being of service to God will ultimately lead to enlightenment.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Please explain Royce
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, if one is to attain enlightenment, I believe he or she
must serve God and pursue knowledge as a way of life.
JBROOKS21:JB> Can you please define enlightenment for a newcomer
ROYCE3:Royce3> And I also believe that to attain enlightenment one must go to
the Godhead.
KOLTA:Kolta> Then you see knowledge and wisdom as being the same thing?
ROYCE3:Royce3> No they can be different. Many people consider knowledge to be
limited to this sphere of existence.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Wisdom, as I use the word, is more closely associated with
KOLTA:Kolta> ok
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> They are different
DORCASQ> Yes they are different
ROYCE3:Royce3> Describing enlightenment is almost impossible. Enlightenment
must be experienced.
JBROOKS21:JB> Doesn't wisdom dictate what one does with knowledge
KOLTA:Kolta> Very different
ROYCE3:Royce3> That is a fair statement, Jbrooks.
DORCASQ> Yes, I think so, JB.
JBROOKS21:JB> Have you experinced it Royce?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> knowledge deals with acquiring accurate awareness of
ROYCE3:Royce3> I wouldn't claim to be enlightened. I have had the good
fortune to attain minor Kensho.
ROYCE3:Royce3> It has taken a lot of work, however.
ROYCE3:Royce3> And I have a long way to go.
JBROOKS21:JB> I am sorry but that is another new term
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> wisdom is the virtue concerned with truth, goodness,
and beauty
KOLTA:Kolta> Minor Kensho?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Kensho, is a mild form of enlightenment. It is a term used in
Zen circles.
JBROOKS21:JB> To compare once again to Christianity then enlightenment is
your ultimate goal
ROYCE3:Royce3> Kensho, like enlightenment can't be put into words. It is a
transcendent state of consciousness.
ROYCE3:Royce3> For me, attaining enlightenment is an important goal.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> wisdom seeks the truth of someting Doing the good
Producing the beautiful
ROYCE3:Royce3> But I'm prepared to accept the fact that I many never attain
JBROOKS21:JB> How does mortality fit in to this picture
KOLTA:Kolta> I think we all attain it in some lifetime, Royce
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> how do you know if a person is enlightened?
DORCASQ> That is a good question, Jeff, how do you know?
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KOLTA:Kolta> I think the person himself is the best determiner of whether or
not he is enlighteed
JBROOKS21:JB> As near as I can determine one is never truly enlightened it is
a relative thing.
KOLTA:Kolta> I am certainly not enlightened
ROYCE3:Royce3> I got bumped to Chicago!!!!!
JBROOKS21:JB> Each has their own degree of enlightenment
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> An enlightened person actually expereriences the Light
Of Divinity and manifests this LIGHT in his or her life
KOLTA:Kolta> Bumped to Chicago??????
DORCASQ> Really, BAD bumped, Kolta.
JBROOKS21:JB> Back to the issue of mortality please
ROYCE3:Royce3> What about mortality?
JBROOKS21:JB> One life? Multiple lives?
JBROOKS21:JB> In the sense of a phyiscal body
ROYCE3:Royce3> I believe in the notion of nonlocal consciousness.
DORCASQ> Good answer, Jeff on enlightened people.
RAINMAN11> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> I believe that our consciousness survives the death of the
ROYCE3:Royce3> I'm not certain about reincarnation.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> In reincarnation theory it takes many lives to achieve
enlightenment. Meditation, study and service are key variables of
ROYCE3:Royce3> I don't reject the notion, however.
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ROYCE3:Royce3> Welcome back, Satellite.
DORCASQ> After a person becomes enlightened doesn't he/she choose whether to
live in this world or not?
KOLTA:Kolta> However, I feel that the soul continues to grow even after
death til it reaches enlitenment
KOLTA:Kolta> - signed off -
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> thanks
ROYCE3:Royce3> Dorcasq, no one has come back to tell me.
DORCASQ> Well...that is what I have read about.
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ROYCE3:Royce3> That may be the case, Dorcasq. It is the belief of many Hindu
KOLTA:Kolta> I belief the soul continues to grow after death til it reaches
DORCASQ> Then what happens to it after that, Kolta?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jeff, what other points would you like to make in regard to
your essays?
KOLTA:Kolta> Then it achieves union with God
DORCASQ> Can you be more descriptive about the union?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I discussed the issue of Lady Wisdom and Dame Folly
with a friend. We concluded most people's life is a combination of Lady
wisdom and Dame Folly. In the majority of people Dame Folly predominates.
KOLTA:Kolta> Let's let Jeff have the show
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> what if Lady Wisdom predominates
ROYCE3:Royce3> She doesn't, Sat.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> but Dame Folly enters occasionally
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> because we are only human?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> What a magnificent excellent life.
KOLTA:Kolta> Do yo think we need the balence of the 2?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i think we do!
ROYCE3:Royce3> There seems to be the general sense among many that there is a
dearth of spirituality in our present culture.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> because nobody is ever perfect!
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> One inquires into the important questions of life.
KOLTA:Kolta> Right Sat.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> wouldn't we then be a boring bunch?
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> we wouldn't even need this chatroom!
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> One learns how to control the vices and express the
KOLTA:Kolta> We would not want to be boring now
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> One is able to discern good from evil and live the good
in actual situations
DORCASQ> Are WE boring???
ROYCE3:Royce3> I don't think we have to worry about everyone becoming perfect.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> i don't think we are boring!
KOLTA:Kolta> No, we are not boring
DORCASQ> We are doing what Jeff is talking about.
ROYCE3:Royce3> I want to remind everyone that we will meet here again
tomorrow at 6:00 EDT.
KOLTA:Kolta> But, vice can be a strength if we use it correctly
ROYCE3:Royce3> We will be having our "open" chat then.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> We discover good causes and devote our life to these
ROYCE3:Royce3> We may talk about anything we choose.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> its time to close
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ROYCE3:Royce3> Hello Penelope.
DORCASQ> Thanks, jeff, that was very good!
KOLTA:Kolta> Excellent Jeff!
ROYCE3:Royce3> You are here just in time for our closing. <grin>
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> we'll see you tomorrow
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> hi Pen!
PENELOPE76> Hi Folks
ROYCE3:Royce3> Bye Jeff.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> - signed off -
PENELOPE76> Timing is everything :)
ROYCE3:Royce3> I would like to remind everyone that Penelope's experiment is
now posted on the web site.
DORCASQ> Next Wed. the chat starts at 7:00 Pen.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, we will be starting an hour later every Wednesday,
starting next week.
KOLTA:Kolta> I need to go also. I have some things to catch up on
DORCASQ> Maybe we will get to talk to you then, finally.
PENELOPE76> Thanks D, class on Wed
ROYCE3:Royce3> Good bye, Kolta.
KOLTA:Kolta> - signed off -
DORCASQ> Oh, too bad!
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> me too julie needs to do some work on the computer
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> see you guys tomorrow
ROYCE3:Royce3> Penelope, the article is very good. Thank you so much.
DORCASQ> Goodnight everyone, thanks.
ROYCE3:Royce3> See you Sat.
PENELOPE76> My goodness this is slow!
ROYCE3:Royce3> bye Dorcasq.
DORCASQ> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, we are getting ready to go home, Penelope.
PENELOPE76> Royce, I do hope your edited my ramblings!
ROYCE3:Royce3> Everyone leaves at this time. But that will change, starting
next Wednesday.
ROYCE3:Royce3> You didn't ramble. I still have a few minor things to edit.
But I wanted to get everything up and running.
SATELLITE8:Satellite8> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> I have to add a bit about the student who wasn't able to take
part in the experiment--the one who was suspended. I didn't make the fact
that he was suspended clear.
ROYCE3:Royce3> I will do all of that this evening.
ROYCE3:Royce3> The pictures are great.
PENELOPE76> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jb
ROYCE3:Royce3> I think it is just you and me.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Thank you for coming tonight.
ROYCE3:Royce3> I hope you will join us again.
JBROOKS21:JB> Thanks for having me
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, we will be back tomorrow.
ROYCE3:Royce3> We meet here twice a week.
ROYCE3:Royce3> You might want to check out our web site. We have logs of past
chats there.
ROYCE3:Royce3> So, with that I will say good night.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Come again.
JBROOKS21:JB> Thanks perhaps I will see you again
JBROOKS21:JB> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> I hope so.
(Logging turned off)