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Esoteric Schools

Logging at 18-JAN-2000 17:58)
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> whats happening?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Oh, not a lot. D and I just finished doing some
meditation--Qi Gong.
** KOLTA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (3 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi Kolta.
KOLTA:Kolta> Hi there!!!!!!
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> China is a very frightening place
ROYCE3:Royce3> China is, indeed, a frightening place.
ROYCE3:Royce3> There's a lot of repression there.
KOLTA:Kolta> Everyone get my message about Gil, if I can interrupt?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> yes
ROYCE3:Royce3> I did
** SCRYE just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (4 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> We will put his name on the prayer list.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi scrye, welcome.
SCRYE:Scrye> Hi.
KOLTA:Kolta> thanks Royce
** DORCASQ just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (5 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi Dorcasq.
SCRYE:Scrye> We are two. Sat is here.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Dorcasq, Marge just mentioned that Gil's mother died.
KOLTA:Kolta> She died last night
ROYCE3:Royce3> I think you remember Gil--the cab driver. He is a very nice
DORCASQ> I am sorry to hear that.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Please post additional information
SCRYE:Scrye> Sad news.
DORCASQ> I'm not quite sure who Gil is.
SCRYE:Scrye> He rarely came to Forums, D.
KOLTA:Kolta> I will when I get it. Funeral arrangements are for tomorrow
ROYCE3:Royce3> You may not know him, Dorcasq.
SCRYE:Scrye> Sat says hi.
ROYCE3:Royce3> It's been quite a long time since I last saw him.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi Sat.
DORCASQ> I have heard the name Gil tho.
KOLTA:Kolta> If you get a late night paper or an early papar tomorrow, the
info will be there
ROYCE3:Royce3> Where does Gil live?
SCRYE:Scrye> He is really into Sedona stuff.
KOLTA:Kolta> Gil usually worked Friday nights
SCRYE:Scrye> We need a last name for that, K.
ROYCE3:Royce3> I didn't know that he was into Sedona.
ROYCE3:Royce3> But then I really don't know him very well.
KOLTA:Kolta> Yes, he was
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, who would like to put someone on the prayer list tonight?
ROYCE3:Royce3> I would like to put Aunt K on again for this week.
DORCASQ> I would like to keep Clare A. on indefinitely.
SCRYE:Scrye> my sister L to stop smoking
DORCASQ> She may not be around much longer.
KOLTA:Kolta> Keep Gary on the list also
ROYCE3:Royce3> ok
SCRYE:Scrye> Miss Bea.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Anyone else, anyone?
KOLTA:Kolta> You have a sister Scrye?????
ROYCE3:Royce3> Very good.
SCRYE:Scrye> nope.
DORCASQ> What do you mean "my sister L to stop smoking"?
** JOASHA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (6 members now) **
SCRYE:Scrye> It is Sat's sister. Sorry.
DORCASQ> It is V I think, Scrye.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hello, Joasha. We are putting people on our prayer list.
DORCASQ> Sat put a name, her sisters, as V on the list.
ROYCE3:Royce3> List anyone you choose.
SCRYE:Scrye> Sat says she had V last time for her sister.
JOASHA:Joasha> heyla to all
DORCASQ> Well, what initial do we want?
JOASHA:Joasha> cooking supper, will be in and out for a few minutes
SCRYE:Scrye> V, Sat corrects her malinitialed sister.
ROYCE3:Royce3> All right, Joasha.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, I guess we can try to move on. If last week is any
indication, most of the people will be here late.
ROYCE3:Royce3> We can add more people to the list later.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Anyone have any important news about UFOs or the paranormal?
ROYCE3:Royce3> If not, I think we can start to proceed to the topic.
ROYCE3:Royce3> The general thread for today will concern the fact that some
of the people who visit here are a bit overwhelmed by the experiences that
some of our number have.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Some of our number want to learn more about what our more
gifted people are talking about.
SCRYE:Scrye> Both parts in present tense?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Say again?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Present tense will do.
SCRYE:Scrye> I guess I missed some recent conversations on those experiences.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Please explain
DORCASQ> I don't understand
DORCASQ> present tense?
SCRYE:Scrye> I asked if both parts refer to present experiences and
ROYCE3:Royce3> The point is, some of the people here would like to become
more involved with the esoteric.
ROYCE3:Royce3> They don't know how to do that.
ROYCE3:Royce3> The explainations being given seem very general--non specific.
ROYCE3:Royce3> In short, some of our number would like to get onto the
"path." But they don't know how to do it.
KOLTA:Kolta> That is clear enough for me!
ROYCE3:Royce3> I think some would like to get some very specific information
about the backgrounds--training and such--of those in the know.
SCRYE:Scrye> Good for you , K!
ROYCE3:Royce3> I was hoping that Watanna would be here tonight, since she is
one of the people with a lot of background in these areas.
SCRYE:Scrye> I'm afraid I will need specific areas before I know what is
required by those people who are having trouble.
JOASHA:Joasha> Kolta and Jeff are very experienced
KOLTA:Kolta> So are you Joasha
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, I don't know if they have what one would call "trouble."
SCRYE:Scrye> There are a great many 'paths.'
JOASHA:Joasha> goodness, the lag time is something awesome
DORCASQ> I guess we need more people here who want to ask their questions.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Most have no path at all.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, that is the general refrain: there are many paths.
SCRYE:Scrye> OK. I suggest that you force us into some specifics.
ROYCE3:Royce3> We have some self taught shaman. And that is very good.
However, most don't seem to be able to make a lot of progress without a
program of some sort.
SCRYE:Scrye> They can read the log later if it is helpful.
KOLTA:Kolta> Some take from more than one path
ROYCE3:Royce3> Or at least an understanding of some of the programs.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Shamanism would be one path.
ROYCE3:Royce3> I think possibly that is the path Joasha is on.
DORCASQ> My only advice would be to get into YOURSELF first.
SCRYE:Scrye> This reminds me of questions people had on Tarot's Witch Talk
and Psychics....
ROYCE3:Royce3> That is too general, Dorcasq.
SCRYE:Scrye> before someone started teaching the Tarot ther, one card at a
KOLTA:Kolta> That is the first thing people shold do Dorcasq. Very good
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, some suggest that the study of the I Ching can be very
much like the study of Zen.
KOLTA:Kolta> No, it is not too general Royce. Too often people forget about
going inwards
ROYCE3:Royce3> You had a good class on the I Ching--at least from what I have
DORCASQ> Without personal involvement, study does not help much.
KOLTA:Kolta> Correct D
SCRYE:Scrye> It offers some guidance to the pursuit of any path (I Ching).
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> One can take A UFO path - Serving the positive ETs
** DAVEHAY just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (7 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, that is true, Scrye.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi davehay, welcome.
SCRYE:Scrye> You talking about my class?
DAVEHAY> greetings earthlings
ROYCE3:Royce3> We are talking about the various esoteric paths to enlightment.
DAVEHAY> (I had to say that)
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> lol
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, Scrye, your class at the Mandala.
ROYCE3:Royce3> I heard it was very good.
DAVEHAY> Oh.. what is your favourite, Royce?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Qi Gong.
SCRYE:Scrye> It was rated well. Wasn't supposed to be so detailed as it
turned out. ty.
DAVEHAY> Isnt that like a martial art?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> My path is serving the Ashtar Command and Theosophy
DAVEHAY> Ashtar Command?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Elements of Qi Gong are included in many martial arts. But it
goes beyond the martial arts. The martial arts aren't necessarily part of the
study of Qi Gong.
JOASHA:Joasha> okay, am now done cooking
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jeff, are you actually a member of Ashtar Command?
DAVEHAY> Oh.. its a "Chi" thing is it?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> No
KOLTA:Kolta> - signed off -
SCRYE:Scrye> Everyone has been afraid to ask that, R!
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, Davehay, it's very much a Chi thing.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> There is information about the Ashtar Command on our
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I have written an article about them.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, there is an excellent mind/body connection with Qi Gong.
It has some important advantages.
JOASHA:Joasha> why would you say that you are not Jeff. You support it with
your belief and grace
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, why aren't you a member, Jeff?
DAVEHAY> I have found sufism to be interesting and enlightening although it
may just reinforce my own prejudices
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I have not put in the time
SCRYE:Scrye> Jeff does not routinely orbit the Earth with the Command, right,
ROYCE3:Royce3> Sufism, indeed, ranks very high among the esoteric traditions.
It is one of the best
ROYCE3:Royce3> See, that is one of the problems, Scrye. I don't know how
seriously to take Ashtar command.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Scrye, do you take it seriously?
** ASTRALMAGE just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (7 members now) **
JOASHA:Joasha> so you know Sufie Mary from Elyria Ohio
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I also serve as the Secretary of the Local Theosophical
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hello Astralmage, we are talking about esoteric traditions.
SCRYE:Scrye> Most mystical in orientation Sufi is. Ashtar I have only Jeff's
word for.
ASTRALMAGE:WhatHumansCallGr> hello
DAVEHAY> It seems pracical, earthy and most importantly .. humourous
ROYCE3:Royce3> Tell us about her, Joasha.
JOASHA:Joasha> Jeff, have you ever met Dora Van Gilder?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> no
ROYCE3:Royce3> And who is Dora?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> hello that other name was to long
DORCASQ> Much better, Grey.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> hello Grey
DAVEHAY> KIss my aura, Dora, its real Angora..(Frank Zappa)
DORCASQ> A poet?
JOASHA:Joasha> Sufi Mary has one of the largest group I have ever experienced
and Dora was the president of the Society for many many years. Dora Kuhns
DAVEHAY> and dont knowit?
ROYCE3:Royce3> A rock star, Dorcasq
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> anyone here ever saw a UFO or been abducted?
ROYCE3:Royce3> I think most of us here have seen UFOs.
DAVEHAY> Not me.. i wish i could see one
SCRYE:Scrye> Dave, it was ora, and pornographic.
SCRYE:Scrye> Need I spell it out?
ROYCE3:Royce3> So anyway, Joasha, who are some of the people you named?
JOASHA:Joasha> well so much for this. see you all maybe someother time. sorry
JOASHA:Joasha> - signed off -
SCRYE:Scrye> orifice
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I seen a occult site on the web that was devoted to
declairing war on aliens who abduct people,mutilate cattle, and other bad
DAVEHAY> sounds like a bit of a strech..
** KOLTA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (7 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> What occult site was that, Grey?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> Oh I forget I typed occult science on y search engine that
is how I found it
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, was the site well done?
DAVEHAY> or medium rare
KOLTA:Kolta> Dave :-)
ROYCE3:Royce3> I know there are some Christian sites dedicated to the same
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> yea it was ok It is a college who teaches the various occult
sciences but they sound kinda cheesie
ROYCE3:Royce3> I'm not following you, Grey. You found a college that teaches
occult subjects?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I dont put much trust in societys religious or other who
want your money to teach you what you could learn from books and the net
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, Grey, are you talking about any society in particular?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> yea it is a occult college
ROYCE3:Royce3> Does Ashtar Command charge, Jeff?
DAVEHAY> Grey.. that's wise.. but counterfeit coins exist because there IS
true gold...
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I forget there name
ROYCE3:Royce3> An occult college? Interesting. Do you remember what part of
the world it is in?
DAVEHAY> My guess... California
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> no I dont remember much about it I can go out of this chat
room and find it if you want?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> There is an excellent page on The Zetas. Its called
ROYCE3:Royce3> Oh, don't leave. Just post it on the message board.
DAVEHAY> What's a Zeta?
KOLTA:Kolta> What is the address, Jeff?
KOLTA:Kolta> A Zeta is a grey
DAVEHAY> Critters from Zeta Reticuli?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> just plug in zetatalk on any search enginee.
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> ok cool
SCRYE:Scrye> There is an Esoteric college on line that give theological
degrees and certificates of ordination.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Jeff what exactly do you do with Ashtar Command, I mean you
personally. What is the extent of your involvement?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> It is now very limited.
KOLTA:Kolta> Is anyone here?
** ARGGHHH just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (8 members now) **
ROYCE3:Royce3> Do you have the address for that one, Scrye? If you have it,
please post it.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi argghh
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> I often visit their sites on the web
ARGGHHH> any men in black here tonight?
ROYCE3:Royce3> We are talking about greys and Ashtar command, among other
DAVEHAY> Well.. i do wear rather a lot of black..
ARGGHHH> saw a grey once
DORCASQ> There was a maninblack here last week.
ROYCE3:Royce3> I hope so Argghh
ROYCE3:Royce3> Tell us about that, Argghh
SCRYE:Scrye> No, but it is in my favorites list, so I could do a later post.
ARGGHHH> actually, the grey i saw was the prototype of the greys of current
ROYCE3:Royce3> Good, Scrye.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Where did yo see him, Argghhh
SCRYE:Scrye> THe prototype?
DAVEHAY> Anyone read Witly Schreiber (sp?)
ARGGHHH> roswell
ARGGHHH> you won't like the story, however
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I like to learn from books I study Magick,OBE,and religion
and history and I dont put much faith in learning from organizations
DORCASQ> Whitley Strieber?
ROYCE3:Royce3> I have read some of Strieber's stuff.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> yes he is a regular on art bell
SCRYE:Scrye> Whitley Strieber. Yes, many of us have.
ARGGHHH> whitley streiber is something of a hack
DAVEHAY> thats the chappy, Dorcas
ARGGHHH> met him, he's kind of full of it
DAVEHAY> What do you think of the idea that the Greys are really robots?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> so who saw a grey?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, Art Bell does have some hacks on. Why do you feel
Strieber is a hack, Argghhh?
ARGGHHH> first grey wan't quite human
ARGGHHH> 99% human perhaps, but not really
KOLTA:Kolta> The greys I have met are not robots but are sentient beings
ROYCE3:Royce3> You met him? Very interesting, Argghh. Where did you meet him?
DAVEHAY> You've met them???
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> kolta were they nice or crewl
ARGGHHH> met him at a con in L.A.
KOLTA:Kolta> The ones I have met are very nice
** BAALZEPHON just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (9 members now) **
DAVEHAY> con... I like that
ROYCE3:Royce3> What sort of "Con?"
ARGGHHH> also met him at my uncle's place in washington, d.c.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi Baalzephon, welcome.
ARGGHHH> scificon
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> hello...
DORCASQ> You met the same grey in both places?
ARGGHHH> hi baalzephon, how's belphegfor?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Oh, I thought you meant "con" as in con artist.
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> hey baalzephon how are you fellow mage?
DAVEHAY> Kolta.. under what circumstances have you met greys?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> this is astralmage
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Huh, wha??? Belphegor? You've mistaken me for a
catholic, mayhap?
ARGGHHH> saw a grey, actually a pair of them before they were launched
KOLTA:Kolta> In meditation and I also see them in other dimensional form
ARGGHHH> no, just making a small joke
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> ah
ARGGHHH> a bit of a long story, but actually quite true
DAVEHAY> Not that you care.. but I find that hard to believe
ARGGHHH> davie, i told you you wouldn't like it
SCRYE:Scrye> Launched does not compute.
ARGGHHH> would you like to hear a tale?
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> It does if "greys" are human too...
DAVEHAY> I love stories
ARGGHHH> about two rocket engineers
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Launched, that is...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yeah, what do you mean by "launched?
SCRYE:Scrye> You know, Royce, if there are real mages here, the topic is
losing a chance.
ARGGHHH> they weren't quite human, about 99% human i said
ARGGHHH> the greys
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> What's the topic then???
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, a good point
ROYCE3:Royce3> We are talking about the ...
KOLTA:Kolta> We are way off topic
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I saw a movie where there were this race of insect like
creatures who entered a host and controlled them and they were using the
greys as there hosts and in the movie they help the grey by removing
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> the incect and he is very nice and tells them how the greys
were inslaved by the incect race
ARGGHHH> actually, they used to be black, but the fur had to be shaved off
ROYCE3:Royce3> ways in which one can choose an esoteric school.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Chimpanzee's are 99.999% genetically identical to
humans, Argh...
ROYCE3:Royce3> We would like to get an overview of the training that some of
our participants have had.

ARGGHHH> i know, because they were
DAVEHAY> Argh.. why are they human.. are they from the future, or created in
labs or torglodytes or what?
ARGGHHH> they were lab chimps
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> An esoteric school... ok.... any thoughts?
DAVEHAY> no way!
ARGGHHH> pan troglydytes is the scientific name
ARGGHHH> way davie
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, how did you get involved with the study?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hey, let's let Baal talk for a moment.
ARGGHHH> not study, but i was there as a mechanic\labour
ROYCE3:Royce3> Baal?
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> the important point is to choose one ot two and study
and serve in depth.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> What do you want to know?
ARGGHHH> don't got much time
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, I would like to know how you got started and when.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I wouldn't know about serve... I feel esoteric
schools should be there to serve people, not the other way around...
ARGGHHH> is this chat on at any other time?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I seen a place on the web were they talked and showed you
how to make the claudus or staff of hermes into a rod that uses energy to
create fourth dimensional waves and can melt pop cans it can also
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> be used for healing I thought COOL!!!
ROYCE3:Royce3> This chat will be on tomorrow at 6.
KOLTA:Kolta> - signed off -
ARGGHHH> thought this was about ufo's, not baal'stalk
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I started about 13 years ago... My first teacher was
a taoist priest and shaoling monk...
** KOLTA:Kolta just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (9 members now) **
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Just trying to enhance the topic...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Did you study in this country, baal?
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> shaolin - doh!
ARGGHHH> gots to go, try to talk about the real greys later on.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Yep - my instructor immigrated from Taiwan, or rather
- his father did...
ROYCE3:Royce3> ok, Arggh
ROYCE3:Royce3> I see.
DORCASQ> What was your reason for getting started, Baal?
DAVEHAY> Hairless chimps.. thats a new one..
ARGGHHH> might help clear up some mis-conceptions, but might make a few
people angry
ARGGHHH> shaved chimps, not hairless
DAVEHAY> oo oo ooo ooo
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I had scoliosis, and I started taking Kung Fu to
increase the strength in my torso so my spine would striaghten...
ROYCE3:Royce3> And did the training help the scoliosis?
ARGGHHH> grey from instrument grease, all hans and franz had(their real names)
DAVEHAY> Schick or Atra?
DORCASQ> OK, this is what we are trying to figure out - what starts people on
a path and how they get to it.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hey guys, please focus on what Baal is saying.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> More or less - I still have a chronic muscle disease
that developed as a complication - but I am functional - more than I would be
ARGGHHH> dunno, they might have used straight razors for all i care
DAVEHAY> Why Royce.. who cares?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, for one thing, Dave, Baal is on topic.
ARGGHHH> bye for now
KOLTA:Kolta> Most of us care. I want to hear Baal
ARGGHHH> - signed off -
ROYCE3:Royce3> We are supposed to be talking about esoteric schools.
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> Yes he is!
ROYCE3:Royce3> So go on ,Baal.
ROYCE3:Royce3> We will try to learn something.
DAVEHAY> Oh.. I thought this was about ufos
ROYCE3:Royce3> That too, Dave.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Tomorrow is the open chat.
SCRYE:Scrye> You see, Dave, this is a chat on a topic and Royce is moderator.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I'm just trying to join in the topic...
ROYCE3:Royce3> You are doing fine, Baal.
DORCASQ> Yes, please continue, Baal.
KOLTA:Kolta> Cotinue Baal
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Well - afterwards - I discovered the spiritual side to
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> your story is fascinating
KOLTA:Kolta> I want to hear the spiritual side Baal
ROYCE3:Royce3> Tell us about the spiritual side.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> And I ended up giving up the hard style for softer
styles, like Pa Kua, Tai Chi and Hsing I...
ROYCE3:Royce3> You will have to give us a bit more information about those
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Its very close to how Qabalists and Chaos mages
perceive things...
DORCASQ> Were you searching for something spiritual or did that just happen
as a result of your first interest?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> listen some people believe in spirits,magic,and power beond
what most people think and why we do it is because we believe at first and
then we SEE what it really is and the uninitiated will never see
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> that unless they too become a student of the occult
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Your second one, Dorcas...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Very good, grey.
DAVEHAY> - signed off -
SCRYE:Scrye> I agree mostly with that, Grey.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Tai Chi - is a slow exercise derived from Chi Kung
(Yogic) breathing exercises and Kung Fu. Pa Kua = Martial art for based on 8
elements. Hsing I - Martial art based on 5 elements...
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Pa Kua is based on circular motion while Hsing I is
based on straight motion...
ROYCE3:Royce3> And how did you determine which to follow?
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> All of the above arts, including the Kung Fu, are part
of the Shaolin system...
SCRYE:Scrye> Pa Kua is also the eight trigrams of I Ching, in a circle.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Yes Scrye - that's exactly it...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Yes, very good, scrye.
** 1CAVERAT just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (8 members now) **
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Pa Kua is based on the I Ching...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi caverat, welcome.
1CAVERAT> hi all
ROYCE3:Royce3> We are taking about Baal's esoteric training.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Continue, Baal.
1CAVERAT> ok ill listen a while
ROYCE3:Royce3> Good to have you caverat
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> There is also a newer art form called I Chuan, that is
also derived from the I Ching... I Chuan teaches one to let the chi move
their body - rather than consciously move...
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I always liked magick but I thought it was all "Black
Magick" and "white magic" only existed in video games and peoples minds so I
started doing Black magick as you could call it and then I found out
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> about white magick as you could call it and now I do
positive or white magick and I firmly believe in karma
ROYCE3:Royce3> All right, Grey. I gather you can identify with some of what
Baal is saying?
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> My instructor's school would be called "black magick"
according to Grey's description, then...
DORCASQ> But how do we find out the SPECIFICS?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Can you expand upon that, Baal?
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Ask specific questions...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Baal, what is your definition of black majick?
DORCASQ> I can't get my questions out right.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Taoist magick is heavy on necromancy... Some of it
benign, some malicious...
ROYCE3:Royce3> magick
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> What is the difference between white and black magick?
ROYCE3:Royce3> You were taught the malicious stuff?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> and some do black magick or white magick or both because
most schols of estorec thought at least western ones teach about karma
meaning what you send out is what youl get back weither bad or godd or
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> in the middle
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> For instance, in Taoist tantrist (sex magick) - there
is a formula that some sorcerors used for longevity that involved drawing
life force from one's partner...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Interesting.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Royce, I study all - good or bad - those are human
judgements anyways...
SCRYE:Scrye> Is Shaolin any purer in spirit than debased Taoist magical
practice? And I'm not necessarily putting down some sex magic.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Magick is as "pure" as the practicioner...
KOLTA:Kolta> I agree. Nothing is good or bad of itself. It is our
intentions that make it good or bad
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> the defination of "black magic" is harm,evil,negitive is how
most define it and "White is Healing, love, good
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> And purity is a matter of our perceptions...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, would the sex magick be considered black magick?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> but magick itself is neither good or bad
DORCASQ> How do you practice magick?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> it is the intentions of the magician
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> It is if you are manipulating life force for your own
benefit at the cost of another...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Grey, seems to have come up with a good definition of black
and white magick. would you agree with his definition, Baal?
KOLTA:Kolta> It is what we do with magick that makes it good or bad
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I only practice magick during lucid dreaming, these
DORCASQ> How do you do it?
SCRYE:Scrye> By purity I meant focusing on the movement of the soul toward
enlightenment rather than longevity in one lifetime or special powers.
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> by ritual,meditation,creative visulization of your goal
KOLTA:Kolta> - signed off -
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Not really Royce... I think issues of black and white
are warning sign's of the bipolar dualism that humanity suffers as a result
of trying to place value judgements on things...
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BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I practice a variation of ceremonial magick dorcas...
DORCASQ> Is that a specific enough question???
ROYCE3:Royce3> Dorcasq has a specific question about how you induce lucid
dreaming, Baal
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Inducing lucid dreams - well...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Dorcasq knows about the subject. So I think she wants your
SCRYE:Scrye> I think, Dorcasq, that magick is best learned one on one.
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BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> The best reference I used for that is the book "The
Dream Workbook" by Jill Morris - if you're into dream magick - BUY IT!!!
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> there are a million ways to practice magick and my best
advice is to find a book like "True Magick" I have read it and I think it
explains how to do magick and what magick is
DORCASQ> That isn't a specific answer, Scrye.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Hi turknole, welcome.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Who is the author of True Magick, Grey?
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> As for the magick I practice when I finally realize I
am lucid ( I usually look for anomalies in my environment) - I cast circles
and the like...
SCRYE:Scrye> OK. Magic combines intention, visualization, and application of
personal energy to a desired result.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Yes - my personal definition of magick is
"Accomplishing what you set out to do..."
ROYCE3:Royce3> Finding one's hands in a dream is one way of inducing a lucid
dream. Do you use that method, Baal?
KOLTA:Kolta> That is a good definition Baal
SCRYE:Scrye> It often benefits from careful consideration of mindset,
setting, symbolic context, and chakra balancing.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> That's a Casteneda technique... I don't use that one
- I usually look at the buildings...
TURKNOLE> - signed off -
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> That looks like a awsome books Baal I have had just two
lucid dreams and they have happened recently and I am now trying to make
myself be aware in my dream like I have in the past but this time
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> with auto suggestion
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> The buildings in my dreams are much larger than the
ones in this world...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Baal, do you work alone with your magick, or do you have
fellow mages?
ROYCE3:Royce3> Do you still maintain contact with your teachers?
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> "Where I walk, I walk alone..." - that is my creed...
It applies to all things...
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> ball I was told to tell and visualize yourself flying or
your hands melting to become aware in your dreams
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ROYCE3:Royce3> Hello Zeybek, welcome.
ZEYBEK:Zeybek> hey all how're you?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I am the same way Baal I am a shadow walker who walks alone
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Grey - the Dream Workbook has about 20 techniques for
lucid dreaming - that's why I recommend it... Not all techniques work for
all people...
ROYCE3:Royce3> We are doing well, Zeyek. We are talking about magic.
KOLTA:Kolta> Baal, what you are talking about is one way you look for your
own inner guidance
ZEYBEK:Zeybek> thanks royce
ZEYBEK:Zeybek> magic? what kind of magic?
KOLTA:Kolta> To do that you have to walk alone
SCRYE:Scrye> There is a concept of "betweenness" in successful practice, a
concept from Richard Rose. Also, I recognize the role of applying something
I call "a lean" which acts on the 0.001 % of reality that is
SCRYE:Scrye> not predetermined to happen in any given instant, in order to
alter the outcome.
ROYCE3:Royce3> White and black magic. The magic of the Taoists.
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> in my life it is me and the divine essence and everybody
else are distant shadows
ZEYBEK:Zeybek> hmm I have nothing about magic:)
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Well I was raised being forced to rely on myself. My
problems are solved not by God(s) nor senseis, nor priest - but me... So if
I haven't needed anyone before - why should I need anything now???
ROYCE3:Royce3> Well, you are welcome to sit back and learn, Zeybek.
DORCASQ> That is what I tried to say at the beginning of the chat, Baal,
ROYCE3:Royce3> Do you believe in the Tao, Baal?
KOLTA:Kolta> I want to thank you too Baal
ZEYBEK:Zeybek> ok royce:) I listen
ROYCE3:Royce3> I believe the Tao to be God; however, it isn't a personified
DORCASQ> I need you people to put my thoughts into words for me.
KOLTA:Kolta> We only look to ourselves for the answers
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I learn, I grow, I walk alone to me it seems the best way to
be I cant rely on gods or angels,spirits, or other That is one reason I want
to become a master so I do not have to rely on anyone
ROYCE3:Royce3> You are doing fine, Dorcasq.
SCRYE:Scrye> A book highly recommended by Richard Rose: Maafgic, White and
Black, by Franz Hartmann. In the public domain.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I beleive that there are two parts to existence that
are facets of the same coin...
ROYCE3:Royce3> I am taking that for a yes, Baal.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I call them the "phenomenal" and the "numinous"...
SCRYE:Scrye> That's of course, Magic, White and Black.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> The are both subsets of what I call "apparent
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Phenomenal describes that which can be obseved and
measured - while Numinous refers to that which cannot...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Ken Wilber, the noted transpersonal psychologist, would say
you are talking about the upper left and right quadrants.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> What we perceive as order and dis/order are based on
our perceptions... Anyone who has studied phsyics knows there are nested
levels of order and disorder contained within one another...
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I have noticed with evil and good there are elements of both
within both for instance when you do evil you hav a short reward but a long
conquence and with good you have a little conquence (getting
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> off your ass and doing it) and a long reward but that is
just my theory
ROYCE3:Royce3> An interesting point, Grey.
KOLTA:Kolta> We all have a right to our own theories, grey
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> that is why evil seems so fun bcause the good part comes
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> but the conquence sucks
ZEYBEK:Zeybek> hey friends I've to go now... bye all
SCRYE:Scrye> Infinite nesting at the borders of chaos and order: fractal
universes. Good and evil are dualistic illusion.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Bye, Zeybek.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Thanks for coming.
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> bye zeybek
KOLTA:Kolta> We need both good and evil. Ying and Yang!!!!!!
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> Amen to that I call both The Great Teachers
DORCASQ> I agree, K.
ZEYBEK:Zeybek> you too royce :)
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> I'd rather steer away from such dualism myself...
KOLTA:Kolta> They do not have to be dualistic
ZEYBEK:Zeybek> - signed off -
SCRYE:Scrye> I'll do without the evil so long as someone else handles it on a
voluntary basis.
DORCASQ> Tell more about that, Kolta?
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> but my theories do not work for all and that is why the best
thing to listen to is yourself
KOLTA:Kolta> We need both our good and evil natures to survive
KOLTA:Kolta> On the orginal star trek, Kirk was divided between his evil and
good natures
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> how can we minimize evil and mazamize good for self and
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> I believe true enlightment comes from within not without
SCRYE:Scrye> That would be our angelic and our daemonic sides.
KOLTA:Kolta> What he discovered was that it was his evil nature that made him
KOLTA:Kolta> - signed off -
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> To revere one thing and to revile another is to create
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ASTRALMAGE:Grey> for the mind to receive and uphold its logic it needs to be
taught by others all the time but the soul needs nothing it has everything
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Light without Darkness is blinding. Sound without
silence is deafening... A painting without shadows is BORING...
KOLTA:Kolta> Very good Baal
DORCASQ> Yes, Baal and Grey!
KOLTA:Kolta> Am I allowed to finish my Captain Kirk story or did I make my
point sufficiently?
ROYCE3:Royce3> People this has been an excellent talk. We will however be
closing in less than three minutes. I want to thank you all for coming. You
have all been great. Please come back tomorrow at 6 PM EDT.
DORCASQ> Yes, Kolta, thanks.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> Have fun all...
ROYCE3:Royce3> Kolta, maybe the story needs to wait.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Thank you Baal
DORCASQ> Thanks everyone!!
JEFFLOVE999:jefflove> it was a very fine session
ROYCE3:Royce3> Thank you Grey.
BAALZEPHON:Baalzephon> - signed off -
SCRYE:Scrye> The mind is naturally dualistic in its operation, categorizing
and discriminating. The spirit is naturally wholistic and quite beyond
dualism. Goodnight.
ROYCE3:Royce3> Good night Scrye.
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> Ever notice when you are really scared and all logic goes
out the window and you feel humbled and realize how small you are and then
have you ever been happy and felt how big and full of logic and
ASTRALMAGE:Grey> wisdom you were and that made you feel big
ROYCE3:Royce3> That's it for now. See you all tomorrow!!!!
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