(Logging at 4-APR-2000 17:57)
DORCASQ> I saw no sigh.
DORCASQ> Give me a sign!
.Royce3> Oh, I will, you can be sure of that.
DORCASQ> I see it already.
** 1CAVERAT just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (4 members now) **
1CAVERAT> hi all
DORCASQ> Hi Caverat
.Royce3> Hi Caverat.
.Royce3> How is your day going?
1CAVERAT> whats up tonite?
1CAVERAT> Working hard, or hardly working
.Royce3> We will be talking about the astral plane and how one accesses it. I
also want to discuss the Art Bell situation.
.Kolta> Maybe you can stay awhile caverat
1CAVERAT> for a bit, maybe
.Royce3> sounds like they are keeping you busy, Caverat.
1CAVERAT> yes. If I suddenly disappear, you'll know something came up
.Royce3> I worry about people I know disappearing.
1CAVERAT> someone can maybe define astral plane?
DORCASQ> I know a lot of people I'd like to see disappear.
.Kolta> So do I Dor
** BAUBLE48 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (5 members now) **
.Royce3> Dorcasq, I
.Royce3> am shocked to hear you say that.
BAUBLE48> Hello All!
.Royce3> Hello Bauble.
.Kolta> Hi Bauble
DORCASQ> You'll get over it Royce
DORCASQ> Hi Bauble!!!
.Kolta> Stay calm Royce
.Royce3> I have taken my medication, thank you. I'm just not sure what was in
1CAVERAT> I for one am skeptical of its existence in the way some seem to
DORCASQ> It is hard to define, Cave.
.Kolta> It is in a another dimension
1CAVERAT> Seems people just use the term as a copout for that which they
cannot explain rationally in some cases
DORCASQ> Definitions in this dimension don't work too well.
.Royce3> It is part of the Great Chain of being as discussed by all of the
esoteric traditions: yoga, sufism, buddhism, the western occult schools.
BAUBLE48> Hi Dorqasq
.Kolta> True Dor
1CAVERAT> Then you are assigning a religious aspect to it?
.Royce3> Probably reading either Ken Wilber or Mark Woodhouse would help
anyone interested in the subject of the astral plane.
.Kolta> Maybe a spiritual aspect to it
DORCASQ> I wouldn't call it religious, yes spiritual.
.Royce3> As we stated last week it is only one of a list of discrete states
1CAVERAT> clarify spiritual as you interpret it
** SATELLITE8 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (6 members now) **
.Royce3> Hi Sat, welcome.
DORCASQ> The place where the soul comes from and returns to.
.Royce3> We are defining spirituality and discussing the astral plane.
** SCRYE just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (7 members now) **
1CAVERAT> as in heaven? D
.Royce3> This is a continuation of the discussion last week.
.Royce3> Scyre welcome.
DORCASQ> Define heaven, Cave.
BAUBLE48> Good D
.Royce3> We are discussing spirituality and the astral plane.,
1CAVERAT> The residence of God as defined in the scriptures
DORCASQ> That could also be the astral plane, Cave.
.Kolta> Heaven and astral plane are probably 2 ways of describing the same
1CAVERAT> Then we do not have access to it in this life according to Biblical
.Royce3> Please keep in mind that the astral plane is only one plane of many.
DORCASQ> We can access it in the ways Royce is describing.
.Kolta> Heaven could have many levels to it
.Royce3> Well out of body experiences are one of the things that occur on the
.Satellite8> - signed off -
.Royce3> As defined by many, the astral plane is the dimension of heaven.
There are many other planes of existence, however.
1CAVERAT> What evidence can you provide supporting out of body experiences?
1CAVERAT> physical evidence
.Royce3> Reams of it, Caverat.
1CAVERAT> and the influence of heaven on the individual
.Royce3> I suggest you start with the work of Dr. Charles Tart.
.Royce3> But I'm not sure how heaven and out of body experiences connect.
DORCASQ> Before I forget, anyone have someone for the prayer list?
.Kolta> Michael again. Not getting any better
.Royce3> Give him our best, Kolta.
.Kolta> I will Royce
BAUBLE48> Suzanne-Edna-Helen-Patti-Gay-Kay (5)
.Scrye> Hell this is Jeff Love
BAUBLE48> You look different Jeff
.Scrye> Delpphi is messed up.
.Kolta> You grew taller Jeff
DORCASQ> I count 6, Bauble.
.Scrye> - signed off -
BAUBLE48> Your're correct, Dorc
BAUBLE48> As usual
.Royce3> I remain confused about who just signed off. It says Scrye
everywhere I look.
DORCASQ> Yea, I don't understand the Scrye thing either.
BAUBLE48> Jeff signed off
DORCASQ> Oh, well...back to the astral plane.
BAUBLE48> Or Scrye is playing games
1CAVERAT> I better sign off. Running Push and it may be screwing with Delphi
.Kolta> Playing games
.Royce3> Well, I just want to stress that out of body experiences have
nothing to do with becoming an angel or anything like that.
BAUBLE48> See you later Cave
1CAVERAT> Keeps me from getting bumped
1CAVERAT> - signed off -
.Kolta> That is a very good point Royce. We do not become angels. Not even
.Royce3> Well, where is Jeff Love? I didn't see him on the sign on roster.
** JEFFLOVE999 just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (5 members now) **
.Royce3> Hi jeff.
.Kolta> There is Jeff!!!!!
DORCASQ> Hey...it's Jeff!
.Royce3> Jeff, were you on just a moment ago?
.Royce3> I'm not sure how you got Scrye's name.
.Kolta> Then it was Scyre who signed off????
DORCASQ> I never saw Satellite sign on either, did you?
DORCASQ> I only saw her sign off.
.Kolta> I did also
.jefflove> No it was Jeff Love
.Kolta> Thanks Jeff
BAUBLE48> Glad you are here Jeff
.Royce3> Jeff, do you have anyone to put on the prayer list?
** JOASHA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (6 members now) **
.jefflove> Strange things are happening on the Internet.
.Royce3> Hello, Joasha
DORCASQ> Strange things always happen on the Internet.
.Royce3> Joasha, do you have anyone for the prayer list?
.Joasha> I thought that maybe with daylight saving times, we were all just
going to wait for dark
.Royce3> We just took some names for the list.
DORCASQ> Yes, it seems strange to see the sun out now.
.Royce3> It took the computer to alert me to the switch.
.Joasha> yes, the Aborigine people in down under
.Kolta> - signed off -
.jefflove> - signed off -
DORCASQ> That figures, Royce.
.Royce3> Well, that is what computers should do.
.Joasha> put them on the prayer list
** .jefflove just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (5 members now) **
DORCASQ> who, Joasha, the Aborigines?
.Royce3> Well, we can do that, Joasha. But what prompts you to suggest that?
DORCASQ> Give me all their names, please.
BAUBLE48> I know someone who is going to Australia this summer to talk to the
Aborigines about their dreams
** KOLTA just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (6 members now) **
.Kolta> It still says no chats are active
BAUBLE48> Dorq you are funny
BAUBLE48> I put a post up Is it not there either
.Royce3> Well, to state the obvious all of this trouble with the chat room
notice causes a problem.
DORCASQ> Yes, I think it does.
.Royce3> I have complained and complained some more, but to no avail.
.Royce3> There is a host's forum where hosts can bitch.
.Kolta> It is not your fault Royce or Baubles
.Royce3> There is plenty of bitching there.
DORCASQ> We can still blame them though, Kolta.
.Royce3> In fact, I'm perceived to be one of the trouble makers.
.jefflove> Strange things are happening on the Internet
DORCASQ> Like what, Jeff?
BAUBLE48> Perceived! You are!
.Royce3> Ha Ha.
.jefflove> I could not get into Scyre's Program on Sunday.
.Royce3> It was God's will, Jeff.
.Kolta> Delphi is having its problems then
DORCASQ> Maybe someone is screwing around with Delphi.
.jefflove> Last night Jeff Rense Sighting program was not on and the screen
.Royce3> Just as long as you stay away from those po no graph ic sites!
.Joasha> am back. cooking supper and ups delivery
BAUBLE48> They need more Techs Anyone want to sign up?
DORCASQ> Smells good, Joasha!
.Royce3> Hmmmm , you are delivering supper via UPS?
.Kolta> Yesterday the chat list I belong to merged with another site and
caused all kids of problems
DORCASQ> What are WE having?
.Joasha> ham steak fried potatoes corn and salad
.Joasha> and it does taste good
.Kolta> Sounds good
.Royce3> Yes, well refreshments need to be made available here in the chat
.jefflove> Satan is at work on the Internet
BAUBLE48> I like Kibbles & Bits myself
DORCASQ> That is your job, Royce
.Joasha> oh....have we hired a cyber chef???? hehehe
.Royce3> I will put peanuts and pop out tomorrow
.Kolta> Kibbles & Bits, Kibbles & Bits! Gotta get my Kibbles and Bits!
DORCASQ> I want something more gourmetish
.Joasha> cool... I do not have to go anywhere tomorrow, can be here for a
BAUBLE48> Good K
.Royce3> Kolta, you are going to get what is on sale!!!!!!
DORCASQ> You must mean me, Royce
.Royce3> That's a an old joke, incidentally. The black comedian, George
Wallace, used to do a routine about his little dog and Kibbles and Bits.
BAUBLE48> I want to hear more about the astral plane now
.Kolta> We are a little off topic
.Royce3> Yes, I'm sure you guys do.
DORCASQ> Be more assertive, Bauble
.Royce3> Off topic? I never would have guessed. It must be my medication.
BAUBLE48> NOW NOW NOW!!!!
DORCASQ> That is better
.Kolta> Very good, Bauble!
.jefflove> good good
DORCASQ> Your medication is off topic, Royce
.Joasha> assertive and being a brat are two different things
.Royce3> Well, I think we started to confuse the issue when we started taking
about the astral plane and heaven in the same breath.
BAUBLE48> People can get pills out of a sealed bottle
DORCASQ> I never could figure out the difference, guess that is my problem.
DORCASQ> Well, Caverat started that and then left.
BAUBLE48> You figured me out Joasha. I am a brat
.Kolta> The astral plane can be only one level of heaven
.Royce3> Bauble, is, of course, alluding to some young Qi Gong masters in
.Royce3> Yes, Kolta, that is correct.
.Kolta> Thanks Royce
.Royce3> And the astral plane isn't where the God head is supposed to reside,
although some say that it is where heaven is.
.Joasha> this is one level of heaven also
.Royce3> However, we should mention that the astral plane is where many dark
forces are supposed to reside.
.jefflove> what is heaven?
.Joasha> state of being or mind, I believe Jeff
DORCASQ> Caverat said that is where God resides.
.Royce3> Personally, I'm not sure there is a heaven, at least not in the
.Kolta> But God resides everywhere and inside us
.Joasha> my point
DORCASQ> I surely don't believe God "resides" anywhere in particular.
.Royce3> Well, according to esoteric tradition there is a certain vibrational
plane in which the Godhead resides, whether God is personified or not is
.Kolta> My point also Dor
.Royce3> Admittedly, this is a verbal construct designed to allow all of us
to have a common vocabulary.
.Kolta> There are a lot of esoteric traditions Royce
.Joasha> whatever you want to be in the astral is what you are going to find.
it is 'space' between worlds of reality
.Royce3> Yes, there are. But the similarities are profound.
BAUBLE48> I believe that J
DORCASQ> Good, J.
.Joasha> like SVaHa, the space between the thunder and the lightening
.Kolta> True, J
.Joasha> the space between notes of music, is where the creative force resides
BAUBLE48> Between the electron and the proton
DORCASQ> I am getting chills thinking of that space, I'm serious.
.Kolta> We also create with our thoughts
.Joasha> it is probably the most 'real' space that there is
.Royce3> Of course, the point of all of this is to try to get all of us on
the same page, so to speak--to allow us some way to know what each one of us
is talking about.
.Joasha> I thought we were discussing the astral plane
.Royce3> We need some sort of mapping; otherwise, we will simply end up with
a lot of colorful phrases.
.Royce3> Yes, we are discussing the astral plane, Joasha.
.Joasha> well, what do you think I have been talking about???
DORCASQ> We are trying to define what/where it is.
.Royce3> And we spoke earlier of out of body experiences. Does anyone
disagree that they are connected with the astral plane?
BAUBLE48> As of yet none of this can be truly understood on the materialistic
level as Caverat would like It's a different way of thinking mentally
.Kolta> Very true Bauble
.Royce3> I think Bauble is correct, too.
DORCASQ> Yes, bauble, that's why it is so hard to try to explain to someone.
.Joasha> okay, what does Caverat and the astral plane have to do with each
.Royce3> I get the impression that Caverat associates the astral plane with
something vaguely evil.
DORCASQ> He was here at the beginning and wanted PROOF
.Royce3> Physical evidence is what he wanted, Joasha.
.Kolta> Not everything can be proven physically
.Royce3> I directed him to read the work by Dr. Charles Tart--one of this
country's foremost researchers on out of body experiences.
.Royce3> Of course, I'm not sure of what kind of physical evidence he wanted.
.Kolta> - signed off -
BAUBLE48> Many people seeing pills coming out of sealed bottles would still
say they don't believe it!
.Royce3> Maybe Caverat wanted something that would show up on some sort of
lab instrument; I'm just not sure.
.Royce3> Anyone have any ideas about what sort of evidence he might want?
DORCASQ> I have no idea.
.Royce3> Darn, I wish he could have stayed.
** .Kolta just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (6 members now) **
.Kolta> I saw names on the board now
BAUBLE48> He would have to actually have an "experience" to believe &
.Royce3> One of the people in our Inner Quest group gets very upset anytime
we talk about the astral plane, even though she, herself, has had out of body
experiences. She thinks they are occult occurrences
.Royce3> that should be avoided by a Christian.
DORCASQ> yes, Bauble, I think that is the only way.
.Kolta> Experience does speak louder than words
.Royce3> Who here has had an out of body experience?
.Joasha> - signed off -
.jefflove> Do you believe Jesus lives in heaven?
DORCASQ> We talked about that last week, Royce.
.Kolta> Jesus also resides everywhere
.Royce3> I don't think I have ever thought about that, Jeff. Where do you
think he lives?
BAUBLE48> Just got an email from a friend yesterday Said her brother in law
saw a triangular object in the sky . Never believed in UFO's before Now it's
** .Joasha just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (6 members now) **
DORCASQ> That would make him a believer, Bauble.
.Kolta> wb Joasha
.Royce3> Dorcasq, are you sure we talked about that last week?
DORCASQ> Positive, R
BAUBLE48> I've never had an obe
.Kolta> Dor is right
DORCASQ> Where were you, Royce?
.jefflove> Joshua Do you believe Jesus lives in heaven?
.Joasha> yep, feels like I am in a rerun
.Royce3> Forgive me, folks.
.Joasha> heavens NO!!!
DORCASQ> Ok, so for the record, where does Jesus live?
.Kolta> I said Jesus resides everywhere
.Royce3> All of the archetypal experiences are supposed to be encoded in the
astral plane. Would anyone like to speak to that issue? We are, of course,
dealing with what Jung was so interested in studying.
.jefflove> Does anyone believe Jesus lives on UFO?
.Kolta> He could Jeff
BAUBLE48> Ingo Swann said that with developing an extra sense (he has done
remote viewing) one's other senses become more acute
.Royce3> Jeff, you never answered my question: Where do you think Jesus lives?
.jefflove> He lives in my apartment. Ha ha
DORCASQ> Your landLord?
.Joasha> and his name is not Jesus
.Royce3> Hmmmmm, now that is a real story for the local papers, Jeff.
.Kolta> Get the journalists out to Jeff's now!!!!
.Royce3> Tell me about archetypes. Are they encoded in the astral plane?
.jefflove> We'll have people waiting for blocks to see him.
.Royce3> How have you personally been influenced by archetypes?
BAUBLE48> DNA RNA etc all is encoded from the beginning of time
DORCASQ> They live in the world of Form.
.Kolta> People will come from miles around just to see Jeff's landlord
.Joasha> well, I for one am glad he is down off the side of barns and silos
and what not and is now comfortable in your apartment
.Royce3> I was very affected by a kind of native American totem pole.
Actually, I'm not at all sure it was authentic, but it manifested power. That
is an example of an archetype.
.jefflove> Soon, there will be the Jeff Love conspiracy
.Joasha> how did it manifest this power Royce?
.Royce3> I felt a sense of awe. My focus turned entirely to the carvings.
It was as though I was in another land.
.Royce3> Actually, there were a number of carvings.
DORCASQ> Where did you see this, Royce?
.Royce3> Mandalas also evoke archetypal feelings.
.Joasha> - signed off -
.Royce3> Remember the park? The environmental perserve?
DORCASQ> I remember that now, Royce
DORCASQ> It didn't have that effect on me, tho.
BAUBLE48> Fractals are just beautiful and so are the Crop Circles I can just
stare at them for a long long time and continue to enjoy
DORCASQ> What are fractals?
.Royce3> That place left quite an impression on me. Remember that the fellow
at the park said that a CNN story had been done that focused on the spiritual
aspects of the place.
BAUBLE48> Are there ugly & evil archetypes?
.Kolta> What are fractals?
.Royce3> Oh, yes, there are evil archetypes.
DORCASQ> Archetypes are everything that we are made of, aren't they?
.Royce3> Archetypes are images, carvings, paintings, objects that evoke
strong emotions about love, war, life, death. And they are common to all
BAUBLE48> Did You see Gregg Bradens Tape _Zero Point Energy_? They had them
on there showing how we go from chaos to order and back gain Kolta
.Royce3> Fairy tales are a type of archetypal literature. Such tales are
common in all cultures.
BAUBLE48> The American flag stirs me
.Kolta> thanks. I asked because dorcasq asked earlier and was not getting
BAUBLE48> Not another nations flag though
.Royce3> Good point. That is an archetype, for sure.
DORCASQ> Our flag..an archetype? naw
.Royce3> Consider the argument now raging about the flying of the Confederate
BAUBLE48> I was obviously on the wrong keys Sorry I missed your question Dorq
DORCASQ> I still don't know what a fractal is.
.Royce3> Also consider the anger about flag burning.
DORCASQ> I think that is different.
DORCASQ> It isn't common to everybody.
.Kolta> Although, in our country, the flag stands for having the freedom to
br it as an expression of free speech
BAUBLE48> Especially the huge flag that Elbys flies with a spotlight on it at
night and the flag softly waving
.Kolta> Pardon my typing
BAUBLE48> fractals are designs that keep repeating themselves
DORCASQ> THANK YOU!!
.Royce3> I think that the emotions that a national flag does or does not
stir, tells us a lot about the psychological state of a nation.
BAUBLE48> Not like in wallpaper these move
BAUBLE48> I do too Royce
DORCASQ> But that isn't a universal emotion, so the flag is not an archetype!
.Kolta> But a flag is only a symbol and not something to be worshiped
.Kolta> The emotions come from within us
.Royce3> Well, you have a point, dorcasq. The emotions that flags generate
are archetypal however.
.Royce3> That comes closer to the truth.
BAUBLE48> Not worship Stirs the emotions about what it represents and I
think its a beautiful design and color
.Kolta> I agree with Dor, flags are not universal
.Kolta> Therefore they are not archetypes
.Royce3> Flags represent the tribe at large. And, of course, that is a
BAUBLE48> thank you Royce
.Kolta> A particular tribe, Royce
DORCASQ> Good point, K
.Royce3> Yes, of course, only for a particular tribe.
.Kolta> Other tribes cannot relate to it
BAUBLE48> Correct K
.Royce3> The point is that flags are intended to rouse archetypal passions.
.Royce3> That is true, Kolta.
DORCASQ> How did we get into flags, anyhow?
.Royce3> Consider that religious symbols are archetypal, but such symbols
don't mean the same thing to everyone.
BAUBLE48> What about the Steller and college. Pennants
.Kolta> Flags can rouse great passion, but that does not make them archetypes
.Kolta> - signed off -
.Royce3> Flags are part of the archetypal scheme, Dorcasq.
** .Kolta just joined "Ufotalk-Time" (5 members now) **
DORCASQ> Is there a list of all the archetypes somewhere?
.Royce3> Well, Jung wrote a book called Man And His Symbols, which lists a
lot of archetypes.
.Royce3> Swords, sheilds, dragons--it's a diverse list all right.
DORCASQ> Are you saying all symbols are archetypes, Royce?
.Royce3> Jeff are you still here?
BAUBLE48> God Angels Demons
.Royce3> Ground control to Major Jeff?
.Kolta> Jeff is greeting the people who came to see Jesus
BAUBLE48> Only if you relate to the symbol Dorc
DORCASQ> I think we are getting our symbols and archetypes confused. A
symbol is related to a person's personal experience, an archetype isn't.
.Royce3> Understand that school colors are archetypes, but usually only to
the students of a particular school. And the colors, of course, once again
appeal to the tribal feelings.
.Royce3> He lives!!!!!!!
.Kolta> Jeff, you are here!!!!
DORCASQ> wow, Jeff?
.jefflove> is it true?
.Kolta> Is what true?
BAUBLE48> Probably not
.jefflove> Half alive only
DORCASQ> I don't believe it.
.Royce3> Mission control we have regained contact with Jeff. Thank you
DORCASQ> Half alive or half dead?
.Royce3> Depends upon one's point of view.
.jefflove> You will soon be surprised!!!
BAUBLE48> The glass is half full
DORCASQ> What are you saying, Jeff????
BAUBLE48> Waht are you referring to Jeff
.jefflove> Wait and see
.Royce3> don't keep us in suspense
DORCASQ> How long?
.jefflove> Is there a talk chat tomorrow?
.Royce3> If you are half dead, we may miss the news before you broadcast it!
DORCASQ> Is tomorrow Wednesday?
BAUBLE48> Don't change the subject Jeff
.jefflove> nce and laughs
.Kolta> Talk chat? Is there any other kind of chat?
BAUBLE48> typing chats
DORCASQ> mind reading chats
.jefflove> Will there be a chat tomorrow?
.Royce3> Yes, there will be a chat.
.Royce3> There's always a chat on Wednesday.
.jefflove> thank you
.jefflove> its 7:30 P.M.
BAUBLE48> Can we all write in to Delphi and complain?
DORCASQ> Will we know then what you are talking about, Jeff?
.Kolta> 7:30???? or 6
BAUBLE48> 6PM Jeff as usual
DORCASQ> Jeff, it is only 7:26 right now.
.jefflove> Its now 7:30 P.M.
.Royce3> Eastern Standard Time, Jeff.
.Royce3> Well, I only have 7:25
.Kolta> I am glad everyone can tell time
.Royce3> But I think we can call it a night.
DORCASQ> It is a night
.Kolta> Yes, call it a night
.Royce3> Hopefully, things will improve by tomorrow.
BAUBLE48> Goodnight All
.Royce3> Good night, D.
DORCASQ> Nite, Bauble
.Kolta> Bye everyone!
BAUBLE48> - signed off -
.Kolta> - signed off -
DORCASQ> Nite, Kolta, Jeff, Royce
.Royce3> See you all.
.Royce3> - signed off -
DORCASQ> - signed off -